Am I the only one?

[thrumylookingglass]

I have been reading with interest all the threads on this board. Am I the only who cannot believe the tone, content and the sheer catastrophe thinking about this issue? Reading threads about stockpiling and falling out with family and friends over this strikes me as strange. Historically, there a many, many more events that have had a humanitarian impact on the world ... Brexit is not one of these! There may, or may not, be an economic impact of Brexit, but will people die? Get killed? Be oppressed? There needs to be some perspective here.

[jasjas1973]

Mama

Anecdotal, we can't all be Charlotte Church or Alan Sugar, for every contestant on x factor, there are 100s of 1000s who will never have the opportunity to better themselves.

I could tell you tales of real deprivation and hopelessness but it would be pointless because you have no capacity to understand.

[Neoflex]

The world wars and all the ugly stuff we read about in history books didn't happen overnight. There were a series of bad decisions made by governments and those in power that brought about these atrocities. Things build up over years.
There is a strong ripple effect for every political decision that can impact all of us "nobodies" for generations if we don't pay attention at the right time.
People are right to be concerned. Isn't that the lesson we are all supposed to learn from history books? Just sitting back with a cuppa one day saying "it will all be alright" might mean you are the ones future generations read about. The people who let it all happen. They just turned a blind eye. Well nobody thought that's how it would end. It wasn't really our war to begin with. We didn't understand what the backstop really was.
Sometimes it is good to be afraid OP

[MrPan]

V well put Neoflex Thanks.

[CherryPavlova]

Jason118 not naive at all.I understand living in poverty full well. I also know it’s possible to escape it but that isn’t necessarily easy.
Nobody has said all you need is positive thoughts, have they?
What are the barriers- and using a food bank is irrelevant, I’m afraid?
It’s hard to have to be reliant on one but that doesn’t mean your children can’t get decent GCSEs, A levels and go to university.
It also doesn’t mean you can’t learn knew skills or gain qualifications.
What stopped you having a decent job before you had children? If you had a decent job, what stopped you returning to it?
It’s a tough line of questions but if you want better simply saying I can’t because I’m on zero hours and I’m poor isn’t really the answer. There are ways to improve your lot but the path isn’t necessarily easy or a quick fix.

[CherryPavlova]

As a start, the OU has many free online learning courses that anyone can access. No prior knowledge necessary and something to add to your cv.
You can also get a student loan to pay for an OU degree. Repayment only starts when you’re earning enough. If you can access MN you can probably do OU modules.

[twofingerstoEverything]

It’s a tough line of questions but if you want better simply saying I can’t because I’m on zero hours and I’m poor isn’t really the answer. There are ways to improve your lot but the path isn’t necessarily easy or a quick fix.
Cherry, you are a Tory's wet dream. We are a wealthy country. Zero hours contracts should not exist. Do you realise how 'stuck' a zero hours contract can make you? How difficult it is to prove your earnings if you want to move, how impossible it is to budget/to save? How being on a zero hours contract can make people feel that even if they're at death's door, they have to go into work or they'll be overlooked for more hours in the future? (I'm not on one of these contracts, by the way.)

[Parker231]

Some posters are obviously very removed from the real world and much is irrelevant to Brexit which is going to very negatively affect everyone but unfortunately those in less well off situations will be even in greater poverty.

[jasjas1973]

Yep Cherry, i can't read, i cant access the internet and i can't fill out a student loan form because of the above

My partner kicks the shit out of me, the kids think i'm a failure and i am and what little money i did get has been sanctioned because i missed my last job interview because of a battered face

i used to go to surestart classes and i was doing ok but Govt spending cuts meant it closed down, my mum is dying and i care for her too

There are charitable organisations helping the very worst off in society but they can only do so much in tory austerity britain.

Pls have a read www.the-sse.org/news/charlotte-young-our-opportunity-to-establish-a-new-trust-society/

I am fortunate enough to know this remarkable woman

[CherryPavlova]

Tory? I despise them and absolutely think good support should be in place to enable people to help themselves.
I dislike zero hours contract ps except perhaps for students. There should be a safety net but that needs to be set up in a way to help people gain qualifications and skills.
If you can’t read literacytrust.org.uk/parents-and-families/adult-literacy/. I rather suspect if you can argue the toss on MN then your reading is at a level where regular practice would improve it. Whilst sure start has been affected by austerity savagery, libraries still loan books for free.

I’m disgusted that you’re being physically hurt and would suggest the first step on the road to a better life is to cut all links with anyone who leaves bruises on you. Then get support to build your self esteem. I’ve never suggested an overnight step up to being a CEO but you can make your life better.

[Mamamia456]

Jason118 - Would you rather she was miserable then, back to struggling with her life?

You sound delightful.

[Jason118]

@CherryPavlova nice aspirations and nothing wrong with the idea. But then the real world arrives, no food again and am I allowed another food bank visit yet? Shall I try for the that, or bundle the kids out to the library to use the PC to fill in an online application form to do an OU course and apply for the funding. Or charity shop for kiddie shoes. The struggles of everyday life in poverty cannot be understood by those who don't live it. In a so called wealthy economy we should do better. But as long as people think it's the undeserving poor's own fault, then governments who don't give a shit will continue to be elected.

[Jason118]

@Mamamia456 are you serious? I just care more about others than you do, obviously.

[Jason118]

Oh, and before I get called out for already being on the internet, I'm using 'I' figuratively, not referring to myself in the examples.

[Mamamia456]

Jason118 - You don't even know me. Why would I not want her to be doing well.

Are you telling me that if Mrs. Brown who lives down your street is in a low paid job but she's finding it difficult to get a better paid one that you feel responsible?

[Jason118]

@Mamamia456 I think your question shows the fundamental difference between individuals and society. You may think that it's possible for everyone to better themselves, and therefore if they don't, it's their fault and nothing to do with you. And the nothing to do with you part spills over into how you view society, i.e. for you it's individually based. I would take the view that it's not possible for everyone to improve themselves (some, yes, but not all), so it's the responsibility of society at large to ensure a basic standard of living for everyone. That's the function of responsible government and it's why blaming poverty on the poor (in essence what you are doing) really exposes the selfishness, often without knowing, of your sorts of posts.

[Mamamia456]

Jasjas1973 - We don't live in an ideal world. There's always going to be people who are better off than others, who have better opportunities, people more intelligent than others, people prettier than others.

People are born in rich countries, poor countries, some people who lead unhealthy lifestyles have a long life, others who try to be as healthy as possible still get cancer. Life is unfair, some get dealt a great hand in life, others a crap one.

There have been times in my life when things have been going great, other times not so great when I've thought why me, but I expect countless other people have gone through similar as well, but I still think my life is my responsibility, because if not whose responsibility is it?

[Mamamia456]

Jason118 - Where have I said that poor people are to blame for poverty?

[Jason118]

@Mamamia456 because you're suggesting it's their responsibility to get out of it.

[jasjas1973]

@thrumylookingglass
Just to be clear, i was not referring to me, which is why it was in italics, however, it is exactly how someone i knew lived their life.

Austerity has cut back the support that many used to get, one such scheme was help for pregnant mums, they were shown how to take care of themselves, to cook, to read and write, basic IT, to give their kids a better start than they got... the scheme ran for 3 years then closed down, nothing in its place.

The truth is, society is responsible for those who cannot help themselves, otherwise the mistakes they made are just carried on through their kids etc and we all pay the price in increased crime and violence.

As PP have said, Brexit will lead to less help not more, as the prevailing attitude in society seems to be more akin to Mana's and less mine.

[jasjas1973]

Sorry that should @CherryPavlova don't know what happened there!

[Mamamia456]

Jasjas1973 - If you read my posts you would have seen that I had said some people may need help and support to change things, but they are ultimately responsible for the decisions they make with that support.

[Parker231]

And going forward as a result of Brexit there will be much less support and help for those who need it.

[Shortfeet]

No you are not alone.

[AmeliaE]

My company almost virtually stopped the investment in the UK sites as they heavily rely on a seamless trade with Europe. My job was never at risk but they froze the headcount and it seems that there is no future plans to expand it if Brexit goes ahead.
All the Brexit instability has meant lots of money lost in trying to work out how Brexit would mean for the business. And the still don't know how they will be affected.
I guess that some other business will thrive (like private travel health insurance for trips to Europe or vets preparing pet passports) but I doubt that my industry will recover at all in the UK.

[Parker231]

I’ve two clients who are in the process of moving their businesses out of the UK. One is moving to Belgium to benefit from trading within the EU and the other to Singapore to be nearer the increasing trade with the Far East. The employees in the UK will be made redundant. I’m sure there will be other similar situations.