Am I the only one?

[thrumylookingglass]

I have been reading with interest all the threads on this board. Am I the only who cannot believe the tone, content and the sheer catastrophe thinking about this issue? Reading threads about stockpiling and falling out with family and friends over this strikes me as strange. Historically, there a many, many more events that have had a humanitarian impact on the world ... Brexit is not one of these! There may, or may not, be an economic impact of Brexit, but will people die? Get killed? Be oppressed? There needs to be some perspective here.

Agreed Helmetbymidnight. Leavers suggesting that remainers want brexit to go badly even though they are trying to stop the worst things happening is frankly absurd.
But this is the blame game and it will get worse.
Blame the EU with some tired and irrelevant references to the wars or French farmers for not coming up with solutions to contradicting UK red lines
Blame the IRA and subtly every Irish person for installing a border and tearing up the GFA with calls for "no surrender" while celebrating their recent victory of William over James in 1690.
Blame remoaners for not believing enough.
Blame Corbyn for, well absolutely everything, because that's the safest way to get another 5 years of selfservative rule....and atleast we get to keep the British overseas territories as tax havens.
Blame anyone left for destroying the NHS because we wanted to give it an extra £350m per week
Blame the EU for using VAR in football and ruining the beautiful game.
And while your at it fuck business, fuck the farmers, fuck the car industry, fuck the need for food and medicine, its all just project fear....because those who voted leave want a jolly good party, they won remember!.....it's gonna be one helleva hangover

The NHS will eventually collapse with or without Brexit anyway

Only if you believe the anti-NHS slow drip drip.

The NHS has asked for an amount of money, it hasn’t asked for a never ending supply of money.

Furthermore, social care needs to change - one part of the problem is that the elderly population are not properly supported so they end up relying on the NHS.

And our lifestyles are incredibly unhealthy. Working all hours, sitting on our arses most of the day, eating cheap processed food and reduced physical activity embedded from childhood etc etc. I could go on - eg the rise in alcoholism, the under funding of mental health services, the poor local economies meaning people are in a terrible state.

The strain on NHS is a symptom of the problems compounded by deliberate under funding.

Tories hate the NHS because it is a socialist construct, Brexit gives them the opportunity to destroy it and rebuild it to their ideology... which will mean paying for things we now take for granted...
tbf it started years ago with eye care, then dentistry now social care...

GP services will be next, run a service down, say it doesn't work, make people pay.

The Tories have had 3 years to take away bursaries from nursing courses, they haven't done it, despite 40k vacancies and rising agency payments.

People like Copper have signed the death warrant for comprehensive free healthcare and still they cheer on the very people who will take it off them.... all so the ECJ can't influence UK law.

I do not believe that the NHS will cease to function

Sadly, your belief is trumped by the work going on in the DH and within trusts to try and prevent total chaos. I guess it depends on your view of ‘cease to function’. It’s already costing more than a small fortune that is coming out of current funding.
Looking at some of the contingency plans in place there will still likely be a service, you are right. However;

• Drug shortages are almost inevitable
• Equipment shortages are almost inevitable (single use equipment such as cannulas, surgical sets, oxygen masks)
• There are already very high vacancy rates in many trusts with a 40% reduction in EU staff applications.
• Cost will escalate hugely resulting in less money to spend.
• Food shortages may well impact on catering suppliers
• There is likely to be significant staffing shortages is supplier workforce’s; the people working behind the scenes are the group of EU nationals less likely to have applied for settled status - the delivery drivers, the taxi drivers, the contract cleaners, laundry staff, porters.

Increased staff sickness is likely to follow due to validation of racism and increased abuse towards non white British staff. The staff survey results post Brexit are already showing an impact, sadly.

Bellingsurge - No I don't want to flush the NHS down the toilet as you put it. Common sense teils me that it can't go on forever. Of course I want it to stay, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for our NHS.

But we do take it for granted because it's free. People lead unhealthy lifestyles and then expect the NHS to fix them when they get ill. People don't bother to cancel appointments because they just think "oh well it doesn't matter".

When today's youngsters' sedentary lifestyle and junk food diet catches up with them in the future how much money will that cost the NHS.

You can't just blame the Government we are all responsible for the continuation of the NHS. We should not take it for granted that it will always be there.

@Mamamia456 you are conflating two issues - changes to tbe NHS and Brexit. If you want tbe former, you need the latter to be done in an orderly way. Just throwing your hands up and saying "It's Brexit, innit?" Is irresponsible and ridiculous. If you don't support No Deal, what are you doing to stop it?

You can't just blame the Government

Like it or not, the government has a huge part to play in our lifestyles.

Poor provision of physical activities for school children

Lack of decent flexible working so parents are out of the house so much, they can’t spend a lot of time with their children and er them out

Poor public transport options outside of major cities = more car use

Poor levels of salaries = people can not afford decent houses with outside space

Poor working conditions and low wages = impact on mental health

Yes we as individuals can do a lot but our infrastructure makes it very hard to do so.

We have had close relationships with our European cousins for decades. Do you think they will let people die or suffer due
How naive is this ??

We may have been friends for ' decades' but Europe has historically been at war with itself for hundreds of years if not.moee before that. Do you really think that a few decades of relative peace (though there have still been some wars) which had been massive aided by the EU will be so easy to maintain going forwards?

So.whilst Brexit' itself is ( I hope) not going to be that catastrophic, I worry that we are setting ourselves up.to.be more susceptible to a.war on our doorstep in the future. That would be catastrophic for us.

Well Brexit is going to cause death and suffering in NI and possibly Ireland for sure so I am sure most of the EU will hardly be worrying what is happening VOLUNTARILY inside the rest of the UK. Throwing two countries, one you have nothing to do with, under a bus to get your stupid brexit is not making you all that popular as a nation I can assure you. I feel sorry for the remainers but I despise leavers.

No one, except you, is saying that the NHS will be sold and people will have to pay.

The NHS is already being privatised bit by bit. I have heard Doctors say that they think in future there will be a charge for visiting the Doctor.

As for people not turning up to appointments - this may be due to their rubbish admin, which in turn is due to a lack of investment. DH had two letters offering him appointments and two cancelling said appointments all on the same day, so he still had to phone to find out when his appointment was. MIL has had similar, only finding out afterwards that she should have gone yesterday.

However, I will add, that when they get to their appointments, I have lost count of the number of people who said that the medical staff could not be faulted.

The NHS is something we value, and yes, we do need to reform it, but let's reform it in a considered way, not just sell of piecemeal.

Peregrina - I'm not talking about hospital appointments, because in my area if you miss 2 appointments without good reason you get taken off the list and have to go back through your go again.

It's people making a drs appointment and then not having the courtesy to cancel it, and then you get people moaning because they can't get a Dr's appointment. That's why, just think an extra 94 people could have seen their gp that month if other people had good manners.

I am talking about people who don't attend because they don't know they have an appointment. Like MIL who is meticulous about those sorts of things.

Brexiteers pretending that Brexit won't screw the NHS since 2016.

Iggly - Typical it's always somebody else's fault attitude.

Schools have loads of physical activities for children, numerous free after school football clubs, etc. It's up to parents to make use of these.

A lot of parents can't be bothered to spend time with their children, and on the occasions when they can actually be bothered they're not giving them their full attention. The amount of parents I see glued to their phones.

I agree that public transport should be better but people are lazy, they'd much rather take the car than walk somewhere.

Just because somebody lives in a flat doesn't mean they can't get any exercise. There are plenty of parks for them to go to. There's so many things that are free to do.

If somebody is stuck in a low paid job that they are unhappy in then they should do something to change that, look to retrain in a different industry, think about what they would like to do and work towards it. It may take a while but it will make them feel more positive.

We are all responsible for ourselves.

I agree that public transport should be better but people are lazy, they'd much rather take the car than walk somewhere.

I don't think you can live in a rural area - where if you are lucky there is one bus in the morning and one back at night.

Peregrina - I'm not talking about people who live in rural areas so have to go by car, I'm talking about people who drive a short distance because they can't be bothered to walk. I think we've all been guilty of that at some point.

mama "we are all responsible for ourselves" you say. Ok, did you pave your pavement, tarmac the road, empty your bin, install the street lights, deliver your own babies, etc?

If somebody is stuck in a low paid job that they are unhappy in then they should do something to change that.

When somebody is truly stuck then they're stuck.
Don't presume to judge people's circumstances. I don't assume people who struggle wallow in their own misery. That's so patronising and reinforces the stereotype that people ultimately deserve their poverty.

I was talking about being responsible for ourselves with regards to our health because the discussion had moved on to the NHS.

Songsofexperience - Where have I said that people deserve to be in poverty? But if someone is stuck in a job they hate the only person that can change that is themselves. They may need support to do that but ultimately they have to be the one to make that change.

Yep blame the victim.

We aren't all the same, we don't all possess the same drive or energy, sometimes we have family commitments or maybe we live in a low wage area, with little in the way of alternative well paid employment, maybe we don't have the money to take a OU course or the time.

You do like to post your ill thought ramblings don't you.

Jasjas1973 - How can someone who's in a job they don't like be classed as a victim?

In that case there must be millions of 'victims' in this country. You do come out with some daft things at times.

@Mamamia456 they are victims of poverty - the need to work often allows no time to look for other work. The fact that you hate your job becomes secondary to survival. It's the ultra right way to run capitalism and if you can't see it you must be blind, even if it doesn't apply to you. It's very real and very wide spread and under your nose.

If somebody is stuck in a low paid job that they are unhappy in then they should do something to change that.
God, comments like this really annoy me. Retraining is often hugely expensive and often means not being able to work while you do it. How easy do you think it is for a single parent in a minimum wage job to 'do something to change that'? People get 'stuck' for all sorts of reasons, which often have nothing to do with lack of ambition or drive, but everything to do with area/availability of childcare, etc. But the main thing preventing them moving onwards and upwards is usually money. Lack of opportunity is how the rich get richer and the poor stay poor.