“Project Fear” ... I’m dumbfound at the ignorance.

[Septemberissue]

I am continually astounded by this government and the Brexiteers who are continually rubbishing claims and predictions by Industry leaders, experts, scientists, doctors and economists and claiming that it is part of the huge conspiracy; “project fear” should it not fit with their prosperous Eden that is post brexit Britain.

For example, Mark Carney said that the economy almost certainly would suffer as a result of no deal. But no no, he knows nothing. It’s project fear.

Dusty old Thatcherite tories (“Lord” Lamont) for example, on Newsnight last night said that Food supplies & medication would not be interrupted, despite industry leaders and experts saying it will. The Governments very own dry run of bringing the isotopes required for medical purposes such as xrays, scans, radio therapy etc. actually demonstrated that there would be delays, but again, these people are spouting lies & it’s just “project fear”. But of course, Lamont - who is arguably theee worst chancellor in British history - the man responsible for a run on the pound, is better placed to comment on this than the experts.

Another dusty old man of Tory grandeur Peter Lilley on PM tonight again dismissing claims by experts. It’s astounding.

Anyone who dares to call Brexit for what it is and gives their otherwise trusted opinion is a “remoaner” and their findings are just part of the so called project fear.

It seems that this faction want to blame anyone but themselves for this mess. It’s project fear. It’s the EU’s fault. They won’t negotiate. Our hands are clean. ... what extraordinary times we live in.

but ignoring the experts because we know best!

Same experts who got all of the post vote leave forecasts wrong?

House!!!

Curses @Jason118 - you beat me to it!

this is a country which has survived several world wars / plagues / fire destroying the capital / civil war / many other wars - for anyone to consider Brexit in that light, well perhaps they are demeaning those who fought in those wars etc?

My grandfather would give you such a telling off for this were he still here. He fought through Italy during the war and, despite this, managed to love Italy and Italians. He spoke with fondness about the people there his whole life and considered himself European. He also believed that a union made us safer.

If anything it is massively disrespectful to the people who fought in the war to make Europe less safe by destabilising the union. And this is one of the issues. It's easy to say "oh Europe would have been fine without the EU" but we don't know. The fact is we've had a long period of peace in the EU countries which coincides with the EU. Maybe it would have been peaceful without. I suppose we will find out. NI will find out first

Same experts who got all of the post vote leave forecasts wrong?

Ah so because Uncle Joe smoked 40 a day, lived until 87 and was as strong as an ox, we ignore the dangers of smoking do we?

No, you take the body of evidence, which in this case (once past the campaigning of 2016) clearly points to problems with Brexit and act in the best interests of the country.... bearing in mind that the electorate are fickle and should issues be sustained and serious, we could be looking at widespread insurrection.

The Govt should proceed with caution, if at all.

Well, except they didn't get all the forecasts wrong despite what the Quitling narrative would like us to believe the expert and traitorous citizen of nowhere remoaner Mark Carney used his expertise and his forecasts to support the economy and stop it from crashing. Other forecasts were for what would happen after we actually left (Note, we haven't left yet). And still the job losses have already been worse than forecast.

But hey, "experts" eh?

Ah so because Uncle Joe smoked 40 a day, lived until 87 and was as strong as an ox, we ignore the dangers of smoking do we

No. Because smoking and it’s effects are well known based on historical evidence (hindsight). No hindsight for UK leaving the EU because it has never happened before.

Carney (and the rest of the experts) can't win: their job is to predict probably consequences, on the basis of past experience, expertise, economic cycles and planned actions (usually by politicians). The politicians can then choose to ignore or act on the reports from the experts - after which, the experts' job is to mitigate the worst of the effects of the politicians' (and/or public's) choices.

For example, they can use Quantitative Easing (which is effectively printing money in today's age) or adjusting interest rates.

Carney pumped millions (billions?) into the economy after the referendum in 2016 via QE after sterling's plummet in value. Unfortunately, he has very little room for manoeuvre with interest rates. Capital controls might be something we see in future if things get really bad. I remember them back in the 70s: limits on the amount of currency you could take abroad .

I was doing a multi-million Euro deal with an Icelandic company during the middle of the Kreppa (what they called their financial crisis), when Iceland had to impose currency controls: my company was really concerned that they wouldn't pay and I had to meet with Icelandic government officials to get reassurances so that we continued with the project - and when the time came to pay, the Icelandic company had to get special dispensation from the Icelandic government in order to transfer so much out of Iceland.

It's a bit like experts trying to predict the effects of anthropogenic global warming. It's something that has never happened before, so experts have to use modelling and so on, based on limited information. So that gives climate change deniers the wriggle room to claim it could be scaremongering, will be FIIIIINNEEE, etc. And if humanity ever takes the warnings of climate scientists seriously and takes action to mitigate the effects of our own atmospheric pollution, and the more extreme effects are therefore prevented - that will then give climate change deniers the excuse to smugly say "See! It was scaremongering after all! Just like Y2K!"

Pointy,
You criticise Janista for not being patriotic enough because she lives in Australia. What about Mistigi? Is she too unpatriotic. She lives in France and is applying for/ has applied for residency there.

You only criticise leavers.

@Coppersulphate I think you'll find pointy criticised a fuckwit

I literally had this same spluttering outburst last night op! almost wish that in the sage words of the leave lot we should just ‘get on with IT‘ (whatever IT is... they don’t even know the actual answer to this) and let the fuckers SEE what the garden of fucking Eden looks like post Halloween

When Boris is the answer... you have to seriously wonder what the fuck the question was.

No. Because smoking and it’s effects are well known based on historical evidence (hindsight). No hindsight for UK leaving the EU because it has never happened before

Not correct at all, many scientists produced evidence in the 30s 40s and 50s that smoking was bad for human health, based on animal lab experiments, they were ignored, even the Nazis knew carbon monoxide was a killer.

Likewise Sugar consumption, again, scientific evidence that it is harmful... ignored (in the 1970s) by folk much like yourself.

We also do have some historical evidence of what Brexit will mean, we weren't in the EEC/EU for many years and we tried very very hard to join because of the benefits of free trade and parity of regulation & despite the growing world economy, close economic and political ties with europe have helped us maintain our economic position, as you pointed out earlier.

We are walking away from our biggest export market (40 to 50% depending how its measured) plus giving a free hand to european capitals to take much of our FS industry.

We've nothing to replace this sudden loss in trade!!! as a former US trade adviser said the other day "You don't leave your current job until you've got another one.."

@Coppersulphate . Get a map out, love. Look where Australia is. Then look where France is. One is close and in the EU and one isn't. Your map will help you.
If @Mistigri was coming out with the shit that @Janista comes out with, they'd get called out too.
Save your empathy for people who deserve it.

Coppersuphate Mistigri is a Brit living in an EU country. So she has a stake in what happens. Brexit will directly affect her life, most likely in the negative sense. Janista is living safely in Australia, away from the fallout of Brexit. If you can't see the difference, you are a stereotypical Leaver.

And I am disturbed by the amount of Blut und Boden nativism shown by some people on this thread. The lessons of only 70-odd years are being forgotten.

Why can't there just be a second referendum in September, options;

1. Revoke Article 50
2. The WA

Any other option is fucking insane

More hype and hysteria .

No deal Brexit it happening. Get over it.

It’s embarrassing watching them work themselves up isn’t it @Janista

@MigorRortis2 , I'm sure @Janista would happily meet up with you for a celebratory drink. But you will have to cough up for a ticket to Australia because they ain't coming back to the UK "until the dust settles "😂😂😂😂

MigorRortis2, what's your financial position? Can you afford to be worse off?

I don’t see that being a problem with all the money I’m going to save not having any food left to buy in the shops @bellinisurge

Bon voyage @MigorRortis2

Why do you assume I will be worse off? @ssd Why do you assume you will be?

The original Project Fear was run by Euro-skeptics.

It claimed that EU was simultaneously controlling of every micro-detail in life and yet so badly run that 80 million Turks would soon over-run us all.

After June 2016, Euroskeptics kept the mind games up with simultaneous claims of "we have to get out NOW or the Evil all powerful EU will take over our lives" but in next breath "The EU is so weak and badly run that they will be begging the UK for a good deal."

@sonetlumiere
Well the government seems to be spending and additional 2.1M on preparations, so they see it as something to get worked up about.

Calais port alone has spent over £5million on new facilities for a no deal Brexit. It’s just forward planning so we can keep calm & carry on trading✌️🇬🇧