“Project Fear” ... I’m dumbfound at the ignorance.

[Septemberissue]

I am continually astounded by this government and the Brexiteers who are continually rubbishing claims and predictions by Industry leaders, experts, scientists, doctors and economists and claiming that it is part of the huge conspiracy; “project fear” should it not fit with their prosperous Eden that is post brexit Britain.

For example, Mark Carney said that the economy almost certainly would suffer as a result of no deal. But no no, he knows nothing. It’s project fear.

Dusty old Thatcherite tories (“Lord” Lamont) for example, on Newsnight last night said that Food supplies & medication would not be interrupted, despite industry leaders and experts saying it will. The Governments very own dry run of bringing the isotopes required for medical purposes such as xrays, scans, radio therapy etc. actually demonstrated that there would be delays, but again, these people are spouting lies & it’s just “project fear”. But of course, Lamont - who is arguably theee worst chancellor in British history - the man responsible for a run on the pound, is better placed to comment on this than the experts.

Another dusty old man of Tory grandeur Peter Lilley on PM tonight again dismissing claims by experts. It’s astounding.

Anyone who dares to call Brexit for what it is and gives their otherwise trusted opinion is a “remoaner” and their findings are just part of the so called project fear.

It seems that this faction want to blame anyone but themselves for this mess. It’s project fear. It’s the EU’s fault. They won’t negotiate. Our hands are clean. ... what extraordinary times we live in.

ImNotYourGranny - where in earth are you buying things that need all this amount of import paperwork? I buy things all the time from ebay and Amazon that are sent direct from China and have no trouble at all.

That, I assume, is because you're in the UK and the UK has a poor record of controlling cheap imports from China. They've been in trouble with the EU for it. I live in another EU country where the rules are properly enforced. You order from outside the EU, you pay import duties every single time.

I buy things all the time from ebay and Amazon that are sent direct from China and have no trouble at all.

If the goods you are importing do not fall into either of the categories below, you are smuggling.

1. Gifts declared with a value of less than £36 are not subject to import duty or VAT.
2. Other shipments imported into the UK with a value below £15 are not subject to import duty or tax.

@Java2019
„A weaker pound would help to offset Import Taxes“

Unfortunately if you are a business which has to import materials from the EU but does not export the reverse is true. (Before anyone says it we can’t source from elsewhere in the world as it is brand specific).

So our materials have increased in cost due to weak pound (22% for some items). We do not export so have pass this cost onto our customers. Who are food processors. Who pass it on to their customers supermarkets. Who pass it on to their customers. You the consumer.

So lose lose for everyone in this scenario.

Misti - that's what it is then. I am talking about cheap costume jewellery, and that sort of thing. I remember getting things sent from a family member in Hong Kong in the 60s and they arrived in the post at our home sometimes having been opened by customs.

Criminals - especially those involved in smuggling - are a section of the community who stand to gain quite a lot from Brexit.

Groucho - what will these criminals be smuggling from the EU that we don't already check for?

Doubletrouble99, you answered than question yourself earlier.

Pray explain Groucho?

In any case, with a U.K. prime minister who has said that he won't step down following a VONC, you might want to be cautious about this line of reasoning

VONC has not yet happened. Even if it took place and forced a general election how would that make a difference? The most likely outcome of a general election is a coalition between Brexit Party and Conservatives.

Worth remembering that many Labour heartlands in Wales, Middle and Northern England voted to leave the EU. Some have estimated up to 60% of traditional Labour voters voted to leave the EU.

In the 2016 referendum 406 constituencies voted leave compared to 242 for remain. Is there any evidence that there has been a big shift of the 406 who voted leave to now supporting remain?

Unfortunately if you are a business which has to import materials from the EU but does not export the reverse is true. (Before anyone says it we can’t source from elsewhere in the world as it is brand specific)

80% of UK economy is services. How are they affected by cost of raw materials?

Bot everything is down to brexit

Correct. The dam that never burst was also down to Brexit.

In the 2016 referendum 406 constituencies voted leave compared to 242 for remain. Is there any evidence that there has been a big shift of the 406 who voted leave to now supporting remain
In a referendum, it's individual votes that count - it's not a "first past the post" system so the results per constituency mean nothing..
There were 2 major issues with the vote:

• We are a country that don't hold referendums often. We don't understand how absolute they are, unlike other countries whose constitution allows for more of them.
• Those who said they wanted Brexit couldn't vote on what flavour of Brexit. After all, the EU trade deal was going to be "the easiest in history" (Liam Fox).

I know many Leave voters who wanted out but with a deal that mean they were still in the customs union without paying the EU bill. That's clearly never going to happen. They say they'd vote remain now.

Doubletrouble99, you already stated in your post above that you import goods illegally from China without paying the import duties. You questioned why others didn't do the same.

There will be huge scope for smuggling and such illegal activities after a hard Brexit. Criminals will do quite well out of it.

@Java2019 , I think the recent power problems have shown you that we are not very good at dealing with difficulties that span several disparate areas. That is what should concern No Dealers.
We can be pretty bloody heroic dealing with things like the dam problem.

@Java2019
Madagascar, eh? Interesting.

Groucho - If you read the thread you would see that I have never imported good illegally from China as was explained by Mistigri when she stated the rules for importing goods from the rest of the world and my reply where I said mine fitted these rules.
So I ask you again what goods you think criminals will want to smuggle from the EU?

@Doubletrouble99 - So I ask you again what goods you think criminals will want to smuggle from the EU?

Smuggling from one side of the border to the other in Ireland was rife. Anything that was cheaper on one side than the other was fair game. Drink, cigarettes, diesel, etc were commonly smuggled across the border.

80% of UK economy is services. How are they affected by cost of raw materials?

Fuel, energy,, food, cost of IT equipment ie Cisco HP. Dell (we don't make any at all) these are costs that add to demands for higher wages, even the price of cars used by employees, all adds to inflationary pressure and helps make UK companies less competitive.

The services economy encompass everything from catering/hospitality to insurance to investment to maintenance of equipment and much more besides.

I spend most of my working day checking out what companies are doing, who is buying who, their annual accounts, where the global HQs are - and am actually shocked at how many global companies have UK HQs, throughout the UK and with turnovers in the plus millions with a fair profit too.

A lot of these are IT and Finance and don't rely on the import/export of materials nor their staff needing to be domiciled in some expensive City office.

Shocked only because it hardly reflects the UK economy as portrayed here.

WhyamIdoingthis - But there has always been differences in price of the products you mention between member states. That won't change when we leave the EU. People have tried to smuggle case loads of Cigs. from Spain or extra booze from France. I always try and fill up the car with fuel when I drive through Luxemburg as it's one of the cheapest places in Europe to buy it. Why would that change. Tax regulations are often different from one state to another. This has been dealt with by the Irish and UK governments electronically for years.

I spend most of my working day checking out what companies are doing, who is buying who, their annual accounts, where the global HQs are - and am actually shocked at how many global companies have UK HQs, throughout the UK and with turnovers in the plus millions with a fair profit too.

Many companies have contingency plans in place to move their global headquarters in the event of a hard Brexit. It's not that they want to move but they will be left with no other choice.

A few companies have already made the move. Sony moved their HQ to the Netherlands.

Even the arch Brexiteer Dyson moved his HQ to Singapore.

80% of UK economy is services. How are they affected by cost of raw materials?

java19 because presumably the people that supply the services need to live therefore will buy stuff that was once a ‘raw material’ just like any consumer they will feel the effect of price rises on goods.

We also make things from ‘raw materials’ companies buy the item they will offer a ‘service’ by using our item to offer a ‘repair’ our increased cost will increase their costs. Some of our goods end up in shops, hotels, hospitals, restaurants, all part of the service economy.

I had to wait an extra day to receive my car back from the bodyshop as they had to make sure the insurers would pay the increased costs of parts incurred due to the fall in the pound. The increase in the cost of parts will increase the costs of the service provider in this case the insurer.

I’m not quite sure where from my original post the subject of services came up but I hope the above helps. The service economy is not entirely separate from the rest of the economy. Products are often converted into services.

@Doubletrouble99 - But there has always been differences in price of the products you mention between member states.

Hence the incentive to smuggle.

People have tried to smuggle case loads of Cigs. from Spain or extra booze from France.

It's not smuggling within the EU if it's for personal use (within reason).

I always try and fill up the car with fuel when I drive through Luxemburg as it's one of the cheapest places in Europe to buy it.

So? That's not smuggling either. The SM and the CU have made all this seamless.

Tax regulations are often different from one state to another.

Yes. And moving products for commercial purposes from one country to another without paying the appropriate taxes is smuggling.

This has been dealt with by the Irish and UK governments electronically for years.

Do you really think smugglers declare what they are bringing across the border?

When the UK leave the EU, people will be limited to a small personal allowance, as is currently the case with non-EU countries. Bringing in more than that without declaring it and paying the appropriate taxes is smuggling, whether it is small scale with an individual bringing a case full of cigs or a commercial enterprise. While you seem dismissive of the individual with the case of cigs, it is still smuggling.