Westministenders: Brexit Preppers Are Traitors Who Don't Believe Enough

[RedToothBrush]

Believe in Brexit. Brexit will be great. If only you believe.

So this is why the pound has tanked.
This is why the Treasury has opened the piggie bank for prep. This has sparked something of a backlash amongst moderates and remain MPs.
This will go towards managing that Channel Tunnel Congestion in Kent we weren't going to have.
And to stockpiling drugs which again was just hysteria.
This is why Gove, an MP who actually does have an eye for detail, has been drafted into the Cabinet Office.
This is why after his stint at DEFRA he is planning to buy tonnes of meat at a fixed price to keep farms in business.

Johnson has been to NI. But it wasn't a publicity stunt apparently. This is a man who posed for a photo when he resigned from the Foreign Office.

He was met with protests.

He also has a phonecall with the Leo Varadkar which was 'warm', before its been said by the DUP that Dublin must be a willing partner in a Brexit Deal.

Johnson is also still sticking to the line that technology can solve the border issue. Technology which will not be available until 2030 at the earliest by the government's own admission.

Johnson has refused to meet any European leaders until they drop the backstop (I note there are no EU meetings planned until mid October just a couple of weeks before the 31st anyway, so this kind of suits him and makes him look tough when really its been timetabled that way for a while. The EU themselves say that the 'next possible contact' with Johnson isn't until the G7 at the end of August anyway too).

However his 'Brexit Sherpa' David Frost - Olly Robbins successor HAS been meeting with EU officials still...

Dr Phillip Lee has confirmed today that he is actively considering his future as a Tory and defecting to the LDs. The rumour has been going for a while, and he is in the process of being deselected by his local party. To openly say it, is quite something though.

We also have the Brecon By Election today, which if the LD win as expected, would reduce the government's majority to just 1.

It is possible that Johnson will be leading a minority government very soon, if the cards fall the right way.

The speculation is rife that Johnson actively wants to force a GE. This hasn't been helped by Dominic Cummings has ordered the preparation of a Budget in the week starting Oct 7. Which would need to be voted for through parliament.

Votes on budget and other important issues are where not having a majority become crucial.

If a budget vote got stuck and provoked a GE it would perhaps land whilst Brexit Party Supporters had returned to the Tory party but perhaps before all the shit has start to hit the fan and people get really fed up.

And even if we do have no deal, when we DO have a deal, we will have to put a bill through parliament to implement it. Whilst everyone has focused on the backstop, no one has thought about this... which is pretty important.

It is remarkable that a No Deal Supporting Government are now seemingly planning for Project Fear.

And we were the crazy ones?

I'm not denying what you're saying DGR - but I feel duty bound to point out that while it might be called the Bank of England, it is in fact the Bank of the United Kingdom and was founded by a Scot and as such, is indeed a communal asset.

Cornwall is another example where the "Remain Alliance" may well benefit from Labour constructive ambiguity. All the way through the 80s, 90s and 00s Cornwall was 40%+ LibDem. In 2017 the Labour plus LibDem vote was 51%. Some of those voters will be Leavers and if Labour goes 100% Remain they risk ending up in a loser takes all tussle for Remainers. Even with a combined vote share of 60% in 2017 the Conservatives still took all 6 seats through the middle. The UKIP vote in 2015 was 14% and Conservatives only took 5 of it in 2017.

(DH has family in Cornwall. They would vehemently object to being written off as an amorphous mass by either side).

Sorry typo - combined vote share of 51% in 2017 ...

I'm not denying what you're saying DGR - but I feel duty bound to point out that while it might be called the Bank of England, it is in fact the Bank of the United Kingdom and was founded by a Scot wink and as such, is indeed a communal asset.

Be that as it may, it's not intended to underwrite the economies of foreign countries. Which was what allowing Scotland a say in interest rates would have been.

As I said, Scotland - like anywhere else in the world - is free to use Sterling if it wants. But what it can't do is set interest rates. And as we have seen in the Eurozone, that's not a Good Thing.

The currency issue is solvable. Ireland left the UK in 1922, didn’t issue its own currency until 1927 and kept it pegged to the pound sterling until 1979, more than 50 years after leaving.
A lot of the issues about Scotland leaving the UK could be solved using the Irish model, the common travel area, currency etc

As I sadi, I don't disagree with you. But if Scotland wanted to be petty, it could say that if the Bank of England isn't a common asset, then Scotland could walk away from the debt that the UK has built up despite North Sea oil, unlike Norway with its Sovereign Wealth Fund - but as I understand it, it has no plans to do so.

I actually think it is correct that the current intention is to establish an independent currency. It could be that Scotland does what Ireland did for many years, when the punt shadowed the pound sterling. But maybe not , if the sterling becomes a basketcase currency following a No Deal Brexit

This is what Scotland's Future said in its intro re the debt:

Scotland and the rest of the UK will agree a share of the national debt. This could be by reference to the historical contribution made to the UK’s public finances by Scotland. An alternative approach would be to use our population share. Either way, our share of the UK’s debt is projected to be smaller as a proportion of our economic output than for the UK as a whole, which means Scotland is better placed for the future.
However, we will also be entitled to a fair share of the UK’s assets, which are estimated to be worth £1,267 billion. We may choose to offset part of our share of UK assets against the debt we agree to take on from the UK.
To find out more about our share of the UK debt and how we will manage it, go to Chapter 10.

www2.gov.scot/resource/0043/00439021.pdf

Don't be so sensible Inniu

Prepping is fine. Prepping for any situation is fine. When I go away for hospital appointments with the younger one I pack almost double what I need just in case. I’m always stocked up on certain things like water, nappies, wipes, any medical supplies my daughter would need etc. So I don’t see why prepping incase brexit goes tits up is an issue. I reckon we will be fine but I don’t own a business and I’m on benefits so I don’t imagine anything will change for us personally.

Hmm, all this talk about moving to Scotland from England. I love Scotland but don't know English people should take it for granted we'd be welcome. In a sense of barging up there, taking up the space!!

Hmm, all this talk about moving to Scotland from England. I love Scotland but don't know English people should take it for granted we'd be welcome. In a sense of barging up there, taking up the space!!

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/05/no-deal-brexit-is-boris-johnsons-central-scenario-eu-told

A million to one he said during the leadership contest. BJ doing what BJ does best.......

Howabout I am really struggling with the idea that Corbyn's leadership /personality is popular amongst London's labour voters. The seats gained at the 2017 election were largely won on local issues, Kensington / Grenfell, Croydon, knife crime / riots and I am sure that along with Tory unpopularity accounts for any increase in the Labour vote. He has totally lost the trust of an important, culturally if not numerically, group in London's labour party as a result of his failure to address the anti semitism issue. He did mobilise youth support, indeed launched his leadership bid on the steps of SOAS. I saw him in there two weeks ago and he is back to being the nice old man who can be relied to shuffle in to events related to his favourite causes but as far as students are concerned there is complete indifference, he lost them with his Brexit stance long ago. He is a popular constituency MP because he is a nice man who has worked, rather like Vince Cable, hard for his constituents for a very long time. Other than that his popularity is definitely in reverse.

Anyone else reading about the No 10 spokesman announcing we will definitely leave on 30 October refusing to answer any questions on substance, think of Sarah Huckabee Sanders......

Whilst EU citizens might be a part of the Libdem / Green success in the European elections in London, every single 18-30, I have spoken to, from many different backgrounds, voted Libdem or Green, and some of those voted Labour in the election . Labour as well as the Tories have a serious issue in terms of support amongst young people in London.

tobee I imagine that it will be remainers wanting to move up and continue working in companies that can still benefit from SM access, etc. As pretty posted they welcome immigrants (generally) and qualified people who can see which way the wind is blowing would surely boost the economy/make it more likely the EU would accept them as a country in their own right. For the EU it would mean less disruption than having each country 'import' workers and for the workers it helps with language barriers and worries about relocating to a country far away from family. I can see a certain animosity but certainly no more than we currently get from Leavers if we talk about Brexit in England. I've been told to piss off to the EU at least 4 times by fellow English because I didn't vote Leave!

But tobee - that's a very English view of immigration, ""that there isn't enough space"^

Scotland needs more immigration: its population is only c424k more than it was in 1939 - and it only recently overtook where it was in 1971, to reach the 1991 official census "record" of 5.3 million (and even that was only thanks to immigration). According to National Records of Scotland, the current population of Scotland is estimated to be 5.42 million - but growing at a slower rate than before and is projected to get to the heady heights of 5.69 million in 2041. More people are dying than being born, so that increase is down to immigration.

With aging demographics, Scotland will be stuffed if it's not able to encourage more immigrants.

www.nrscotland.gov.uk/filesstatistics/nrs-visual/rgar-2017/rgar-2017-infographic-booklet.pdf This booklet has some interesting statistics.

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We have been treated with contempt for the past 3 years, more so than before I think.

48% of the electorate has been treated with contempt for the past three years.

I imagine that it will be remainers wanting to move up and continue working in companies that can still benefit from SM access, etc.

I imagine there will be plenty of leave voters wanting to do the same once they come face to face with the reality of Brexit.

We had the fantasy-moving-to-Scotland conversation at the weekend. Sadly, as DH is no longer working due to PD and I’m no longer working due to DH’s PD, I imagine we wouldn’t be the sort of immigrants Scotland - or anywhere else - would be trying to attract.

I asked db to move the day after the ref...still working on it!...

It just seems Scotland want to jump into the unknown, much the same as Brexit, Leavers don't seem to grasp remaining is no different to what we have all grown up with - it's the status quo.

As for the ditching the £ I would like to see BoZo try to explain why he won't pay off debts to EU but Scotland should to England...

pretty and lonely I was joking/half joking about the space.

It's true that people refer to "little Englanders" and not "little Scotlanders"
Presumably for a reason?

I think a lot of English people, rightly or wrongly, think Scots aren't keen on the English. Northerners don't like Londoners etc.

Personally, my instinctive reasons for remain are emotional (maybe that makes me as bad as a Brexiteer?). I like living in a melting pot and welcome Europeans and non Europeans living in the uk. And reciprocal arrangements. As I live here and earn money (and volunteer for asylum seekers) from teaching non native English speakers English. I choose to do that because I can meet people from all over the world.

I wonder more about the English v Scottish idea of immigrants. You often here of people complaining in communities that incomers push up the price of houses. Is that a thing for the Scots?

I wonder more about the English v Scottish idea of immigrants

What I knew of Glasgow ages ago, (in the middle of the last century !) it was culturally diverse. Glaswegian Italians, Pakistanis, Irish, Indians and Jews have been part of the city for generations. I can think of significant Glaswegian business people, entertainers and politicians from all of those backgrounds.

Doesn't answer your question on house prices though. Sorry.

Old Glasgow was more concerned about whether people were Catholic or Protestant in affecting where people bought houses and went to school as I recall........ I'm sure that's all changed now. But are Scottish brexiters are more likely to be Protestant or Presbyterian Unionists, I wonder?

Scotland now has higher income tax than England and different property laws (indeed always has had many different laws) - greater rights to roam I think on land and that kind of thing.

If Scotland did choose to leave the UK it could call its currency "The Scot". i think that would be a good name for a scottish pound.

I voted remain but I accept we have to leave as remain lost the vote. I support the Conservative party but both main parties are spilt down the middle on the referendum issue. The Financial Times today thinks we probably can and will leave on 31 october simply because of timing etc (and actually Parliament has voted to leave twice and the nation voted to leave so it's not exactly weird that we might leave).

@Xenia do you think the story
Party are doing the democratic thing by trying to force through No Deal when they have no mandate?

I did actually agree with your previously but now I cannot accept the way we are being forced to leave. Compromise would have been acceptable but not this.

Some Scots pay more income tax - but don't forget - some pay less I remember the BBC trying to find higher rate tax payers to complain about paying more than in England and they obviously really struggled. The "worst" they could come up with was something along the lines of (from a SME business owner), "I'd rather not pay more but if it means that those that work for me get better services, then it's ok"

We also now pay extra Council Tax because we're in a Band G house.

On housing, I think there is resentment of second homes in the Highlands/other tourist areas, but those that want to move to areas and want to contribute economically to such areas are welcomed.

Woman - I think that Glasgow is even more culturally diverse than when you were here. Fifty five languages are spoken at ds' old secondary school (roll about 1300 which is large for Scotland) It's supposedly (according to the British Council) one of? the most international state schools in the UK

Unfortunately, there is still a bit of the Catholic-Protestant sectarian divide, although it is too gradually getting better.

I remember when I was campaigning for Yes in the Indyref: this heavily tattooed guy in a Rangers top came to the local Yes Office (where you gathered to be allocated your canvassing area) Everyone held their breath, thinking he was there to cause trouble, but he went on to say, "It's a no-brainer. What can I do to help" So much for preconceptions