Westministenders: Brexit Preppers Are Traitors Who Don't Believe Enough

[RedToothBrush]

Believe in Brexit. Brexit will be great. If only you believe.

So this is why the pound has tanked.
This is why the Treasury has opened the piggie bank for prep. This has sparked something of a backlash amongst moderates and remain MPs.
This will go towards managing that Channel Tunnel Congestion in Kent we weren't going to have.
And to stockpiling drugs which again was just hysteria.
This is why Gove, an MP who actually does have an eye for detail, has been drafted into the Cabinet Office.
This is why after his stint at DEFRA he is planning to buy tonnes of meat at a fixed price to keep farms in business.

Johnson has been to NI. But it wasn't a publicity stunt apparently. This is a man who posed for a photo when he resigned from the Foreign Office.

He was met with protests.

He also has a phonecall with the Leo Varadkar which was 'warm', before its been said by the DUP that Dublin must be a willing partner in a Brexit Deal.

Johnson is also still sticking to the line that technology can solve the border issue. Technology which will not be available until 2030 at the earliest by the government's own admission.

Johnson has refused to meet any European leaders until they drop the backstop (I note there are no EU meetings planned until mid October just a couple of weeks before the 31st anyway, so this kind of suits him and makes him look tough when really its been timetabled that way for a while. The EU themselves say that the 'next possible contact' with Johnson isn't until the G7 at the end of August anyway too).

However his 'Brexit Sherpa' David Frost - Olly Robbins successor HAS been meeting with EU officials still...

Dr Phillip Lee has confirmed today that he is actively considering his future as a Tory and defecting to the LDs. The rumour has been going for a while, and he is in the process of being deselected by his local party. To openly say it, is quite something though.

We also have the Brecon By Election today, which if the LD win as expected, would reduce the government's majority to just 1.

It is possible that Johnson will be leading a minority government very soon, if the cards fall the right way.

The speculation is rife that Johnson actively wants to force a GE. This hasn't been helped by Dominic Cummings has ordered the preparation of a Budget in the week starting Oct 7. Which would need to be voted for through parliament.

Votes on budget and other important issues are where not having a majority become crucial.

If a budget vote got stuck and provoked a GE it would perhaps land whilst Brexit Party Supporters had returned to the Tory party but perhaps before all the shit has start to hit the fan and people get really fed up.

And even if we do have no deal, when we DO have a deal, we will have to put a bill through parliament to implement it. Whilst everyone has focused on the backstop, no one has thought about this... which is pretty important.

It is remarkable that a No Deal Supporting Government are now seemingly planning for Project Fear.

And we were the crazy ones?

What about Hammond as PM?

If he resigns from the Tories then would be acceptable as an independent?

He seems to be the only one out there with costed transparent policies, at least a direction on Brexit that is trying to bridge the fucking huge chasm between Leavers and Remainers, letting the public have another chance at voting to stay in the EU, all the commentators are suggesting that people head towards the LibDems but what are their policies other than Remain, what will they abandon to get into power, if they were serious about remaining wouldnt working with Corbyn towards getting a PV make more sense but Swinson has ruled that out so [shrug]

To be replaced by who BCF the blairites would want 1 of theirs and we'd want 1 of hours, if the PLP hadnt been so public in their displeasure at Corbyn public perception might have been different

What he did wrong in the past:
Again, if he had put his ego aside and joined all the other Opposition parties & Tory rebels in a vote for a PV, it might have won

May was at her latest stage pretty desperate for the HoC to agree on anything, so she would likely have accepted an indicative vote actually FOR something, instead of all votes being against ever proposal
and hence agreed to a PV "because the HoC ordered it, not me, folks"

I'd not have hammered him for trying and failing, any more than failing to stop UC
It's the fact he didn't try, in fact whipped against, previous attempts at a PV

And of course, going back to the 2016 referendum - Leave would never have won, with a normal Labour leader
All denials about the effects of a Lexiter leader are just not credible

His very half-hearted and obviously reluctant 70% for Remain gave a green light to Lexiter waverers to vote Leave, removed the ned for tribal loyalty
His clique - whether at his orders or not - hindered Labour Remain campaigning by others

But the mess is happening right here. Right now. But if you're happy to wait until it's all gone to fuck...

@tobee I know take Smiths’ runs out of that total Aussies would be out of this already. We need a bit of luck.....

It would be good if Corbyn could have campaigned with Cameron in the first place. Just as much as the Tories, this Labour leadership is about putting party first. And that's party members only.

As I say, I see fuck all sign of Corbyn and Labour wanting to attract voters.

Maybe not even necessary to replace as PLP leader, if Corbyn would support as PM a Remainer retiring at the next GE

Since the Tories are the largest party - even if not in the new govt - and to encourage Tory rebels,
a Tory like Grieve, Clarke or Hammond would make sense

The Tory govt has avoided passing bills on anything else for months,
so a new govt could also agree that it would not pass any bills other than to get us out of this Brexit mess

A PV with Remain vs an available - not fantasy - Leave option would let the public choose / gains public consent for what happens next

If "Leave" is the WA, that keeps it fully open for Corbyn to later negotiate his desired trade deal - or the Tories to negotite theirs.
The WA is just the Exit agreement; it doesn't bind anyone to a particular future trade deal; it mainly protects the GFA

However, I don't think our MPS are capable of putting the country first,
so all this is just saying what they could do if they weren't nearly all party hacks and careerists

I do see what you mean BCF but in the latest round of indicitive votes he did vote with all the PV options, if anyone remembers I was critical at how slow Labour have been to get to this point but theyre here now and I agree there were mistakes (understatement) but we are were we are and the options we have right now are:

Tory - No Deal if they get a majority or dont call an election
LibDems/Remain Alliance - Remain but with no chance of a majority and have already ruled out working with Corbyn and have no policies (or I havent seen or heard them that could be on me though)
Labour - PV at all cost and campaigning for Remain against Tory Deal/No Deal, if Labour win a GE renegotiate with CU/SM alignment in mind and then offered back to the public as a Labour deal/Remain referendum subject to all the checks and balances of the EC and a fully costed manifesto

🏏

It would be good if Corbyn could have campaigned with Cameron in the first place.

Nope, No, Nah, Niet, Nein, Na

However, I don't think our MPS are capable of putting the country first, so all this is just saying what they could do if they weren't nearly all party hacks and careerists

Cant disagree with that

Corbyn is as much to blame for a No Deal exit or Brexit as a whole than anyone else.

His lack of ‘Opposition’ at a time when we needed the ‘Opposition’ more than ever is criminal.

Being a Party leader means doing what is right for party and country even if you are not a true believer.

He is no longer a rebel MP. He needs to go and the sooner the better

Well of course he wasn't going to campaign with Cameron because he's not interested in pragmatism. Nor is he interested in staying in the EU.

Or is Corbyn interested in becoming prime minister.

That Guardian article is fantastic value. Loads of insightful comments from across the globe.

Just one that caught my eye (because it's 101% true)..

Britain confuses its standing with that of London. London is a great global city. Britain is a small European country with ideas above its station. People will continue to shop in London. Companies will locate less in Britain. The Indian government will pay less attention to the British prime minister and more to Brussels and Berlin.

What if they called a VoNC less than 2 weeks before Oct 31st? So they would still be sitting and they wouldn't have left for a GE. Which would mean either they would install an interim govt before the deadline and beg for an extension OR they would still be looking to see who could form a government and in the meantime parliament could still pull out every stop they could find to insist Blowjob ask for an extension (they'd be in no worse position then they are looking to be in now - but Blowjob would be). Isn't that the sensible time to do it? And more likely to win because parliament are less than 14 days away from no deal?

Corbyn is as much to blame for a No Deal exit or Brexit as a whole than anyone else.

Nope its the Tory parties mess

Nicola didn't campaign alongside Cameron (or Corbyn for that matter ) and still managed to come out with a stronger Remain message than anything Corbyn said

poster All the other options involve the parties carrying out their manifesto plans after a No Deal Brexit
That puts the UK in a desperate negotiating position, with the economy going over the cliff

Even if Corbyn were to win - big if - agree to the EU preconditions and hence ask for GATT A24 to apply, it would not keep all the advantages of a WA transition

Maybe the biggest concern is that the EU would no longer be negotiating under A50 and hence instead of QMV (EU Qualified Majority Voting in EUCO) would require the unanimous agreement of all 27 countries to a deal

This would mean worse terms or the UK, because some countries would hold out for concessions on e.g. banking tax, fishing, Gibraltar, NI ....

So longer & tougher negotiations

It would also mean a long drawn-out approval process, having to go through about 38 national and regional Parliaments, any of whom could veto it for more UK concessions,
instead of just the E27 heads of govt agreeing in EUCO under A50

All the while, the UK's business & wealth would be draining away .....

Yes, pretty.

Yup, NS showed how to campaign 100% vigorously for Remain, while NOT campaigning alongside the odious and treacherous Cameron

Posted too soon. Sturgeon was of course in an entirely different position to Corbyn.

Other than a LibDem majority I'm not sure what else can be done tbh BCF and I just dont see that happening unless a condition of them C&S with Labour would be a revoke but I think were well into the realms of fantasy there

Leaving it until less than 14 days would be a terrible idea,
unless the organisers of the new govt have the MP votes committed and ready to snap into place almost immediately

Even then, I would fear BJ's gang finding some way to delay those few days until No Deal Brexit happened

• and that Remainers / soft Brexiters would be out-thought, or chicken out as usual