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Brexit

Westministenders: Brexit Preppers Are Traitors Who Don't Believe Enough

947 replies

RedToothBrush · 01/08/2019 12:31

Believe in Brexit. Brexit will be great. If only you believe.

So this is why the pound has tanked.
This is why the Treasury has opened the piggie bank for prep. This has sparked something of a backlash amongst moderates and remain MPs.
This will go towards managing that Channel Tunnel Congestion in Kent we weren't going to have.
And to stockpiling drugs which again was just hysteria.
This is why Gove, an MP who actually does have an eye for detail, has been drafted into the Cabinet Office.
This is why after his stint at DEFRA he is planning to buy tonnes of meat at a fixed price to keep farms in business.

Johnson has been to NI. But it wasn't a publicity stunt apparently. This is a man who posed for a photo when he resigned from the Foreign Office.

He was met with protests.

He also has a phonecall with the Leo Varadkar which was 'warm', before its been said by the DUP that Dublin must be a willing partner in a Brexit Deal.

Johnson is also still sticking to the line that technology can solve the border issue. Technology which will not be available until 2030 at the earliest by the government's own admission.

Johnson has refused to meet any European leaders until they drop the backstop (I note there are no EU meetings planned until mid October just a couple of weeks before the 31st anyway, so this kind of suits him and makes him look tough when really its been timetabled that way for a while. The EU themselves say that the 'next possible contact' with Johnson isn't until the G7 at the end of August anyway too).

However his 'Brexit Sherpa' David Frost - Olly Robbins successor HAS been meeting with EU officials still...

Dr Phillip Lee has confirmed today that he is actively considering his future as a Tory and defecting to the LDs. The rumour has been going for a while, and he is in the process of being deselected by his local party. To openly say it, is quite something though.

We also have the Brecon By Election today, which if the LD win as expected, would reduce the government's majority to just 1.

It is possible that Johnson will be leading a minority government very soon, if the cards fall the right way.

The speculation is rife that Johnson actively wants to force a GE. This hasn't been helped by Dominic Cummings has ordered the preparation of a Budget in the week starting Oct 7. Which would need to be voted for through parliament.

Votes on budget and other important issues are where not having a majority become crucial.

If a budget vote got stuck and provoked a GE it would perhaps land whilst Brexit Party Supporters had returned to the Tory party but perhaps before all the shit has start to hit the fan and people get really fed up.

And even if we do have no deal, when we DO have a deal, we will have to put a bill through parliament to implement it. Whilst everyone has focused on the backstop, no one has thought about this... which is pretty important.

It is remarkable that a No Deal Supporting Government are now seemingly planning for Project Fear.

And we were the crazy ones?

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LonelyTiredandLow · 03/08/2019 23:43

Sorry Woman, X post.

woman19 · 03/08/2019 23:49

No worries lonely.

I've posted it on secondary school thread, but discussion of the 'brexit' seems to be verboten in the education bit of mn( as are so many of the real politik issues which impact on the education system here), like the feminist threads, like every all everywhere else on this site.

Funny that.

tobee · 03/08/2019 23:55

This is true woman!

Janista · 03/08/2019 23:55

People are getting stressed by things they can't control. Just stop stressing about it , you can't really do much about it.

Get some fresh air, and some perspective.

It's no deal Brexit, not the siege of Stalingrad.

tobee · 03/08/2019 23:55

Re your comment on my comment woman! Smile

tobee · 03/08/2019 23:56

How's that fresh air in the Australian winter, Janista?

Janista · 04/08/2019 00:00

Rather fresh this morning, around 8 degrees.

Peregrina · 04/08/2019 00:09

It's no deal Brexit, not the siege of Stalingrad.

So if Australia suffers a heat wave and forest fires next year, you want us to say "What are you grumbling about, we'd love a bit of sunshine." do you?

LonelyTiredandLow · 04/08/2019 01:00

Get some fresh air, and some perspective.

It's no deal Brexit, not the siege of Stalingrad.

Of course I am anxious and stressed because I can't control it. It's been 3 years of everything I thought I knew about my country changing; from who my neighbours are, to the feeling in the street to plummeting currency and scares of food shortages when the last date came up.

If you are the kind of person who can brush off the idea your kid might not go to school for an indefinite period of time, have to pay up to 20% more for their food and feel happy that you may not be able to drive out of the county or that the army might have to enforce Project Yellowhammer - great! I am not.

Looks like you don't even live in the country, so back of and beak out with your "just chill!" comments. No one can predict what this will or won't be like and certainly not someone who hasn't seen first hand what is already going on.

lonelyplanetmum · 04/08/2019 05:33

Otherwise, no deal is coming down the tracks," he said. ( Stephen Barclay).

So we've moved on from buses to trains? Threatening France, Germany etc with our own self harm? Is this passive aggressive or just aggressive.

Oakenbeach · 04/08/2019 07:14

I note Cummings is saying that a successful VONC won’t stop no-deal as the Government would just ensure any GE occurs after 31 October....

It got me thinking, how is it decided when a GE would be in the event of a VONC? I would imagine Parliament would be the ones who would agree on a GE date in such circumstances.... and having just voted down the Government, it would hardly acquiesce in choosing a GE date after 1 November.... Am I correct and Cummings is talking out of his arse? Or is Cummings right, in which case it’s a massive issue?!

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 04/08/2019 07:16

People are getting stressed by things they can't control. Just stop stressing about it , you can't really do much about it.

I always find this sort of comment utterly baffling. If I would do something about it I wouldn’t need to stress. I’d just do whatever it is that I could do - problem solved.

Oakenbeach · 04/08/2019 07:16

Is this passive aggressive or just aggressive.

Whichever it is, it is insanity!

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 04/08/2019 07:23

Am I correct and Cummings is talking out of his arse? Or is Cummings right, in which case it’s a massive issue?!

This thread explains why he’s wrong. Anti No Deal MPs need to rally round an alternative PM - as I think PPs here have pointed out. Can we trust them to get their act together?

. threadreaderapp.com/thread/1157770775681744906.html

Westministenders: Brexit Preppers Are Traitors Who Don't Believe Enough
SingingBabooshkaBadly · 04/08/2019 07:41

Full text of unrolled thread here:

Cummings is, I think, (unsurprisingly) wrong about the constitution: if there is a vote of no confidence in say September and an election is not fixed till after Halloween, the purdah convention would require Johnson to seek an extension until after Election Day.

But since there is doubt about the enforceability of that convention, and since Cummings/Johnson have contempt for conventions that don’t suit them, it would be foolish to rely on it.

^MPs seeking to stop no deal should therefore be prepared to rally round an alternative PM: if Johnson loses a vote of no confidence he can then be told that if he refuses to extend, a majority of MPs will then back an alternative PM, whom the Queen would then have to appoint.
That is the only reliable way of dealing with a government that rejects normal constraints: it has to be ejected.^

(See here for my analysis of the purdah or “don’t preempt” convention and the reasons why - unlike @RobertCraig3 - I don’t think the contrary view is even arguably correct.)

Hazardtired · 04/08/2019 07:54

I didnt know they literally have to rally round one person. I just thought cross party they would all have to mingle and work together.

I never thought i'd say this but Hammond? He could be someone con MPs could follow and he's clearly not a fan of no deal? And currently in talks with people so willing to do that.

RedToothBrush · 04/08/2019 08:00

David Phinnemore @Dphinnemore
'[Cummings] instructed officials to communicate the message that the EU wants to “control our laws and taxes forever” after Brexit – the concerns Mr Johnson holds about the mechanism – rather than simply referring to “the backstop”.'

Interesting shift in narrative away from NI and border to focus on UK-wide elements of backstop, included let's remember as a EU concession to UK. If this is the backstop that has to go, it suggests reversion to NI-only variant remains option as part of deal

This would piss off the DUP and lose Johnson 10 votes. (Possibly 11 with the honorary DUP member for Vauxhall)

BUT

If it stops no deal and enough MPs are that desperate to stop No Deal then it might be a significant shift.

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LonelyTiredandLow · 04/08/2019 08:03

Or Rory Stewart?

Peregrina · 04/08/2019 08:04

Which MP do you think the HoC could rally round?

LonelyTiredandLow · 04/08/2019 08:07

Forever after Brexit?
Someone might be getting their communications a bit muddy here - tread carefully Cummings or loose trust.

Which average person has engaged enough to understand the backstop? This might not be his plan...

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 04/08/2019 08:08

Which MP do you think the HoC could rally round?

As a temporary measure maybe Ken Clarke?

RedToothBrush · 04/08/2019 08:09

The main problem with a cross party alliance is magic grandpa.

Labour won't go for any cross party leadership without him as PM. And the LDs probably won't go for that given the percentage of support they are getting because of opposition to Corbyn personally.

So it either has to be none Corbyn led Labour or a none Labour figure. Neither of which will be acceptable to Labour.

So please put this fantasy of a cross party venture out of your heads. It's politically unviable.

I do believe that Cummings is therefore correct because although he may not be right in constitutional terms, if you factor in what is politically possible he is.

I thought in March that was our last chance to stop no deal, and nothing has happened to change my mind yet.

The way that Johnson and Cummings are talking and setting up the narrative, if we don't have no deal now Johnson looks weak.

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SingingBabooshkaBadly · 04/08/2019 08:09

Too remainy I suppose on reflection. I suppose it needs to be someone not ultra Remain but also not a No Dealer.

RedToothBrush · 04/08/2019 08:10

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/04/liz-truss-trade-deal-food-safety-deregulation?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true
New trade minister Liz Truss had private talks in US with libertarian groups
Fears for weakening of UK’s food safety and animal welfare standards in any deal with America

We are fucked.

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Hazardtired · 04/08/2019 08:11

Rory had compromise red lines he wanted that brexit focus group of citizens over PV/revoke/norway. Need someone less public with their opinion maybe?

Also after dg said he looked like the love child of Cliff Richard I can't look at him without seeing it Grin