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Brexit

Westministenders: Brexit Preppers Are Traitors Who Don't Believe Enough

947 replies

RedToothBrush · 01/08/2019 12:31

Believe in Brexit. Brexit will be great. If only you believe.

So this is why the pound has tanked.
This is why the Treasury has opened the piggie bank for prep. This has sparked something of a backlash amongst moderates and remain MPs.
This will go towards managing that Channel Tunnel Congestion in Kent we weren't going to have.
And to stockpiling drugs which again was just hysteria.
This is why Gove, an MP who actually does have an eye for detail, has been drafted into the Cabinet Office.
This is why after his stint at DEFRA he is planning to buy tonnes of meat at a fixed price to keep farms in business.

Johnson has been to NI. But it wasn't a publicity stunt apparently. This is a man who posed for a photo when he resigned from the Foreign Office.

He was met with protests.

He also has a phonecall with the Leo Varadkar which was 'warm', before its been said by the DUP that Dublin must be a willing partner in a Brexit Deal.

Johnson is also still sticking to the line that technology can solve the border issue. Technology which will not be available until 2030 at the earliest by the government's own admission.

Johnson has refused to meet any European leaders until they drop the backstop (I note there are no EU meetings planned until mid October just a couple of weeks before the 31st anyway, so this kind of suits him and makes him look tough when really its been timetabled that way for a while. The EU themselves say that the 'next possible contact' with Johnson isn't until the G7 at the end of August anyway too).

However his 'Brexit Sherpa' David Frost - Olly Robbins successor HAS been meeting with EU officials still...

Dr Phillip Lee has confirmed today that he is actively considering his future as a Tory and defecting to the LDs. The rumour has been going for a while, and he is in the process of being deselected by his local party. To openly say it, is quite something though.

We also have the Brecon By Election today, which if the LD win as expected, would reduce the government's majority to just 1.

It is possible that Johnson will be leading a minority government very soon, if the cards fall the right way.

The speculation is rife that Johnson actively wants to force a GE. This hasn't been helped by Dominic Cummings has ordered the preparation of a Budget in the week starting Oct 7. Which would need to be voted for through parliament.

Votes on budget and other important issues are where not having a majority become crucial.

If a budget vote got stuck and provoked a GE it would perhaps land whilst Brexit Party Supporters had returned to the Tory party but perhaps before all the shit has start to hit the fan and people get really fed up.

And even if we do have no deal, when we DO have a deal, we will have to put a bill through parliament to implement it. Whilst everyone has focused on the backstop, no one has thought about this... which is pretty important.

It is remarkable that a No Deal Supporting Government are now seemingly planning for Project Fear.

And we were the crazy ones?

OP posts:
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QuckTheDuck · 03/08/2019 09:37

Thank you for all the explanations 🙂

HesterThrale · 03/08/2019 10:04

Not sure about this poll.

Westminster voting intention:

LAB: 30% (+3)
CON: 29% (+1)
LDEM: 16% (-3)
BREX: 15% (-1)
GRN: 5% (+1)

mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1157392760112123905?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

TheElementsSong · 03/08/2019 10:23

I'm trying to break Poe's Law on that AIBU thread, but frankly it's impossible. It's like every barrel-scraping cliched trope ever conceived is being vomited out on there.

NoWordForFluffy · 03/08/2019 10:25

I couldn't read to the end, @TheElementsSong. It was making me too frustrated!

TheElementsSong · 03/08/2019 10:40

I think one of my errors is that I use too many words and write complete sentences. And have punctuation. Grin

Hasenstein · 03/08/2019 10:45

Nothing much to say this morning (waiting for cricket to start), apart from saying how much I detest Priti Patel:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/03/priti-patel-home-secretary-wants-criminals-to-literally-feel-terror

Says she her QT comments on capital punishment were "clipped", but then confirms them anyway.

woman19 · 03/08/2019 11:09

Thank you for posting those Hester. On the remainiacs emergency post Brecon podcast they mentioned a possible GE mid October?

DarkAtEndOfTunnel · 03/08/2019 11:29

It's a cult. It really is.

Yes. There were originally reasoned arguments for Brexit. I, on balance, went with remain on the information presented at the time, and have only gone more remain as more facts have emerged, but they were there. Now it's all led by emotion. I don't know if it's even possible to cut through that. It looks like the UK is having one of its periodic fits of tabloid-led mass hysteria, but this one will kill people.

Socksontheradiator · 03/08/2019 11:34

Thank you so much Hester.
I started on these threads just to get educated on all this. Have only this week realised that it's possible to get involved and I've been thinking about finding out how, so links are well timed for me :)

DarkAtEndOfTunnel · 03/08/2019 11:35

Of course the internet itself is heavily culpable in spreading rants that no one is expected to take seriously. I use it that way myself on occasion. But the net result is this complete inability to comprehend the implications. This is one of the highest political games on the planet ffuckingfs. And some just want it to "go away" or "get it over with". Asking everyone else on the planet to go away!

howabout · 03/08/2019 11:39

Hester that poll is consistent with the Con/Brx vs Lib/Lab totals on other polls. Where it differs is in the lower vote share for LibDem and higher share for Bxt.

Given it has Labour ahead, although still not enough for a majority it shows the danger of a LibDem led Remain Alliance if Bxt Party starts to move back to Conservative. Other polls already show this and Brecon by-election tends to vindicate them.

A certain proportion will always be Greens and not necessarily switch LibDem or Labour if there was no Green candidate. The same can be said for up to 1/3 of both LibDem and Labour who could not bring themselves to switch even for Remain Alliance. I don't think the 20% or so Conservative voters (less than 10% of electorate) who prioritise Remain at all costs are enough to counter the Left Remain who would never vote LibDem. I would guess that if Labour headed the Remain Alliance the number of Conservative Remain switchers would be even lower.

howabout · 03/08/2019 11:49

On reading back realise should also have pointed out the 20% Labour Leave and also there are some LibDem and Green Leavers.

Iambuffy · 03/08/2019 12:07

Oh ffs.

I bet they have a GE when I'm away!

What are thoughts on postal votes? Never done one.

I won't vote for any of the quisling motherfuckers, so will vote which ever way ds1 wants.

It's his future.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/08/2019 12:14

"the danger of a LibDem led Remain Alliance"

Well, it wouldn't be a danger if Labour don't keep pissing off its Remain voters

if a party tells over 70% of its voters to fuck off
and fucks off the floating voters that any party needs to win a GE

it's just flushing its election chances down the toilet

BigChocFrenzy · 03/08/2019 12:18

If Labour insist of fighting the Tories over the votes of the 51.9%, it will lose

because the Tories have the Leave vote nailed down

Brexit is a hard right Tory project and those who prioritise Brexit will reward the Tories for it

Tories lose votes when they look weak on Brexit
Labour lose votes when they look weak on Remain

Peregrina · 03/08/2019 12:18

Where are you going lambuffy and for how long? If you are abroad for any length of time a postal vote is unreliable because it might not get there and back in time. In that case you would be better finding someone to do a proxy vote for you.

Otherwise: www.gov.uk/government/publications/apply-for-a-postal-vote

What do I think? Potentially open to fraud, more so than turning up at the polling station, but postal votes are necessary in some cases.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/08/2019 12:19

of course individual seats will have individual results, but that looks the overall situation in England & Wales

howabout · 03/08/2019 12:21

unherd.com/2019/08/how-the-left-lost-wales/

The problem for Labour and why becoming Full Remain and / or dumping Corbyn won't work. Lots of parallels with Scotland as evidenced by the 13 Tory MPs, where once there was 1 even with an SNP/Labour split Left vote. Analysis could also be applied to much of the North of England.

DGRossetti · 03/08/2019 12:26

Priti Patel is one of the cretinous morons whose "answer" to miscarriages of justice (which incidentally are the worst possible reason for opposing the death penalty) is "DNA innit ?".

She did it years ago on QT - Ian Hislop gave a careful, eloquent, informed, educated and researched opinion, and PPs answer was "We've got DNA". Which as well as being ignorant was open to debate, as I have my doubts as to he humanity.

I'd rather a murderer went free than be hanged if I were on a jury (as many in the 50s and 60s did - hence the slow abolition of the death penalty).

JustAnotherPoster00 · 03/08/2019 12:31

Can anyone tell me how they have renovated our ability to have a democratic vote without Psyops? Doing the same thing and expecting a different result...

That I think will be tackled correctly this time by making sure its not classed as an advisory referendum it will be subject to all the checks and balances that the last one wasnt

Iambuffy · 03/08/2019 12:32

Its uk peregrina but anyone who could be a proxy for me will be with me!

Peregrina · 03/08/2019 12:35

A postal vote should be OK for you then lambuffy. They get sent out a few weeks beforehand and you have some time to get them back, so as long as you aren't going on holiday for a couple of months you ought to be covered. You can apply now, so that you are prepared.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 03/08/2019 12:41

So if the LibDems are -3 in that poll surely Swinson should step down right? I mean thats the logic applied to Corbyn at times

DGRossetti · 03/08/2019 12:46

I really think at this stage Remain is a dead duck. It needs too much faith from the EU27 that simply doesn't exist anymore. Brexit is nothing to do with the EU (not that it never was).

I think the best way forward is to wrong foot the Brexiteers, and simply accept Oct 31st and plan beyond without any ambition to rejoin the EU, but to do our best to keep the fascists at bay. They are currently assuming Remainers will be pressing to rejoin, and to fight on that basis. So to turn around and say "You know what, you're right. We are out, and we are staying out. That being the case, we are going to stay out without a Tory stitched-up right wing government, but a more egalitarian socialist one. Fuck you Farage".

Maybe, just maybe, that's team Corbyns thinking in vague terms ?