Westministenders: Brexit Preppers Are Traitors Who Don't Believe Enough

[RedToothBrush]

Believe in Brexit. Brexit will be great. If only you believe.

So this is why the pound has tanked.
This is why the Treasury has opened the piggie bank for prep. This has sparked something of a backlash amongst moderates and remain MPs.
This will go towards managing that Channel Tunnel Congestion in Kent we weren't going to have.
And to stockpiling drugs which again was just hysteria.
This is why Gove, an MP who actually does have an eye for detail, has been drafted into the Cabinet Office.
This is why after his stint at DEFRA he is planning to buy tonnes of meat at a fixed price to keep farms in business.

Johnson has been to NI. But it wasn't a publicity stunt apparently. This is a man who posed for a photo when he resigned from the Foreign Office.

He was met with protests.

He also has a phonecall with the Leo Varadkar which was 'warm', before its been said by the DUP that Dublin must be a willing partner in a Brexit Deal.

Johnson is also still sticking to the line that technology can solve the border issue. Technology which will not be available until 2030 at the earliest by the government's own admission.

Johnson has refused to meet any European leaders until they drop the backstop (I note there are no EU meetings planned until mid October just a couple of weeks before the 31st anyway, so this kind of suits him and makes him look tough when really its been timetabled that way for a while. The EU themselves say that the 'next possible contact' with Johnson isn't until the G7 at the end of August anyway too).

However his 'Brexit Sherpa' David Frost - Olly Robbins successor HAS been meeting with EU officials still...

Dr Phillip Lee has confirmed today that he is actively considering his future as a Tory and defecting to the LDs. The rumour has been going for a while, and he is in the process of being deselected by his local party. To openly say it, is quite something though.

We also have the Brecon By Election today, which if the LD win as expected, would reduce the government's majority to just 1.

It is possible that Johnson will be leading a minority government very soon, if the cards fall the right way.

The speculation is rife that Johnson actively wants to force a GE. This hasn't been helped by Dominic Cummings has ordered the preparation of a Budget in the week starting Oct 7. Which would need to be voted for through parliament.

Votes on budget and other important issues are where not having a majority become crucial.

If a budget vote got stuck and provoked a GE it would perhaps land whilst Brexit Party Supporters had returned to the Tory party but perhaps before all the shit has start to hit the fan and people get really fed up.

And even if we do have no deal, when we DO have a deal, we will have to put a bill through parliament to implement it. Whilst everyone has focused on the backstop, no one has thought about this... which is pretty important.

It is remarkable that a No Deal Supporting Government are now seemingly planning for Project Fear.

And we were the crazy ones?

Waves back to Iambuffy. to Red BigChoc and all the keepers of the westminstenders flame.

Granny - could your DH contact the media? Surely, there comes a time when ethical individuals have to do that kind of thing? They wouldn't reveal his identity.

imo, it's a stitch-up that both main parties are chasing the 51.9%, but for the 48.1% it's just "fuck off and suck it up"

And of the 51.9% it's "fuck off and suck it up" to those who don't want a hard Brexit, so you are down to perhaps 10 -15% of the population.

When the country is split, one of the 2 main parties should represent each half

Or ideally, as with the GFA, get both sides together to sit down and seriously ask themselves whether this can go on and if so, what are the areas of agreement that they can find to build on. Eventually it will need to come, but eventually can be a few decades.

Ooh been catching up on the posts from today and it suddenly stopped.

Anyway, it's made me want to get hold of my old o level economics text book😀

woman I whiled away some moments reading the comments on the IT FB page to see. They weren't as bad as I was expecting. General consensus seems to be that it requires far too much co-operation from politicians to be in any way realistic but that apart from that it's not a bad idea per se.

The whole thing is such a shit show.

Ben Riley-Smith @ benrileysmith
Exclusive

US has told Britain it will not get a trade deal unless the new tech giants tax is ditched.

Officials ‘at multiple levels’ have relayed warning. Congressmen too. Big issue in talks.

Summary thread…

I’ve been talking to a dozen+ figures tapped into early talks on a UK-US trade deal.

Was an attempt to work out situation on the ground beyond the warm Trump/Boris rhetoric.

There are sizable pitfalls…

One big one playing out behind the scenes is over Britain’s ‘digital services tax’

That is a 2% tax of UK revenue which will hit Amazon, Google, Twitter, Facebook etc

One big one playing out behind the scenes is over Britain’s ‘digital services tax’

That is a 2% tax of UK revenue which will hit Amazon, Google, Twitter, Facebook etc

An indication of how against a digital services tax they are came last week.

France announced one. Trump threatened wine tariffs and called Macron ‘foolish' in response.

An indication of how against a digital services tax they are came last week.

France announced one. Trump threatened wine tariffs and called Macron ‘foolish' in response.

Some of the strongest threats are coming from Congress which needs to approve the deal.

Silicon Valley’s lobbying is influential. It has led to some v tricky meetings….

Liam Fox was given warning by Ron Wyden, the top Democrat on Senate Finance Committee, face-to-face in Washington last month.

“There should not be any negotiations on a trade deal as long as a digital services tax is being pursued,” Wyden said, according to 2 sources.

Chuck Grassley, the top Republican on the committee, is understood to have said similar.

To boil that down - big figures in both parties are effectively telling Britain 'drop the tech tax or no trade deal'.

Telegraph also understands Liz Truss, the new Trade Sec, has serious concerns about tightening rules on tech firms and the impact it will have on trade deal talks…

She has doubts re the "online harm" white paper tightening rules on what appears on websites, per a well-placed source.

“She is a very purist free-trader who believes in light government intervention and that market forces will stimulate growth” the source said.

All of which means a big decision for Boris/Javid.

Do they delay the tech tax, smoothing path to a deal but being accused of folding to DC pressure?

Or stick with it, frustrating Trump administration but getting the £400m in revenue expected?

Watch this space….

Look out for data protection rights and legislation being scrapped too then.

The nuclear sector is quite a small family and he doesn't know of a single expert like himself who has been contacted by government for advice

They would be under an NDA presumably...it wouldn't usually stop you from confirming you were being consulted though, just on sharing the contents of that consultation.

I've just used a paraphrased version of what you've shared (no username or forum mentioned - hope that's okay) to raise a question to Tory members on what the benefit of secrecy around no deal plans is?

Since they think everything will be fine they presume it's under control. What benefit does keeping detailed plans secret serve when sharing these well thought through plans would presumably counter what they see as unnecessary panic over no deal?

I'm interested to see how they square this one...

Another view of how right wing the Tory membership are.

One group I'm on consider themselves the progressive type of Tories. There is a thread about rolling back the 'Mayite legacy'.

Even on this group there is a fair amount of agreement to want to roll back:

• Sugar tax
• Energy price caps
• Office for Tackling Inequalities
• Restrictions of free schools
• Tax changes for buy to let landlords
• Porn
• Gender pay audits
• Porn block laws/age verification

And to "put a Tory in charge of the Public Health Office so it winds its neck in".

Liam Fox was given warning by Ron Wyden, the top Democrat on Senate Finance Committee, face-to-face in Washington last month.

On a flippant note I just realised that the above has s new title... he is now the disgraced former defence and trade secretary and Werrity mate.

I actually felt a momentary pang of feeling sorry for him. He spent all those years setting up his (eventually banned) Atlantic bridge ‘charity’ . All his political moves were designed to fawn over the US. Sort of like Uriah Heep ( ever so ‘ umble Mr Trump). However for all his sycophancy the US have been entirely ruthless over maintaining their protectionism, supporting the GFA etc.

We are sort of like a boy or girl band who is dissatisfied with their lucrative ‘ record’ deal so ignore their domestic fan base - it's as if we have kicked everything in the teeth to ‘make it big’ in the US ..only to flop there.

Going back a little to Labour's 'policy' on another PV.
Can anyone tell me how they have renovated our ability to have a democratic vote without Psyops? Doing the same thing and expecting a different result...

Honestly, people are not taking the very basic facts of why we are in this mess seriously enough. We simply cannot trust any form of public vote. Pretending we can has me wondering if Labour are still just as pro Leave as we suspect and feel they need some more vindication - knowing full well it would be a re run of the first.

I'm concerned about that too, on the other thread there seemed to be a lot of "I voted remain but I'd vote leave because it won last time and it's only fair that it happens".

I think the PV campaign would have done better to focus on informing the public of facts to change their minds rather than just calling for another vote. 😔

If the cheating had been stuffing ballot boxes then a rerun can be straightforwardly fair, but when they duped real voters, it's hard to get those folk to see that and change their minds.

I realise informing people of the facts isn't necessarily a strong enough factor to change their minds if they have ignored all the available facts up until now. But some sort of campaign to win people over.

Look at what the other side have done in building support for no deal and anger with mps out of the current mess over the past few years. I'm not sure that remain has had a similar impact on public opinion in that time?

I'm concerned about that too, on the other thread there seemed to be a lot of "I voted remain but I'd vote leave because it won last time and it's only fair that it happens".

I find that attitude bizarre. Do we think they're all / mostly bots spouting that nonsense? I simply cannot believe that given the utter shit show it's proven to be, that anyone would actively vote to leave!

I also don't understand how people have failed to realise that it's the rampant Brexiteers in Parliament who've thwarted leaving, not the remainers (who you can't necessarily expect to vote leave).

I would rather they (the MPs) had voted to leave with the WA than cling on to some way of remaining though, in order to prevent no deal. Both sides are to blame for where we are (though the ERG are happy about it).

I find that attitude bizarre. Do we think they're all / mostly bots spouting that nonsense?

No sadly, I have met one Remainer in real life, who 'just wants to get it over with'. She's just retired from a medical research department, where most of her colleagues were EU citizens, many of whom will go back to their own country or other labs. 'Getting it over with' won't suddenly train up UK staff to fill the vacancies.

Only revoking would get it over with, but even then, so much goodwill and trust has been lost, that it will be hard to replace.

I was talking about 'getting it over with' with DH last night while we were watching Newsnight (rock'n'roll Friday nights here!). I basically ranted at him about how deluded these no deal types are if that's what they want!

Why is nobody banging the 'no deal is just the start of it' drum REALLY bloody loudly? Everybody is just so fucking passive. Why?!??

Because to get the information you need to make an effort. Reading is active. Looking up things is active. Sitting down and scrolling pages on FB is passive. And people are fundamentally lazy and inerte (and a bit stupid, IMO)

But with something this important, it is the job of the people charge with running the country to ensure that people are informed.

I’m a company manager. Our business will be indirectly affected by brexit but will not be hit straight away for something you can easily identify as a tariff or a showstopper. It’s quite nuanced. Most of the directors gave zero attention to brexit preparation before March, zero reading of the guidance on the government website (I did it, not that it helped much...), they thought that chucking money into opening an office in the EU would be enough but let me tell you...they read the cricket or football results in the evening, not the news.
One of my admin staff came around the 20th of July to ask me (‘cause I’m clearly the panicky brexit expert in the company ;-) “I’ve just wondered: do we have a prime minister?? Who is it? I haven been following for some time, what’s happening?”

@cherin , that's fucking terrifying.

Isn't it just, @bellinisurge?!

Why is nobody banging the 'no deal is just the start of it' drum REALLY bloody loudly Everybody is just so fucking passive. Why?!??

Couldn’t agree more! Remainers need to stop talking to their base if they want to be successful,
and make this argument to those who don’t really care too much either way but just want it over, but believe it will all be on 1 November if only we left with no-deal.

Shh, cherin and bellini - some Leavers will interpret that as they didn't know what they were voting for! Now we all know that Leavers wanted the hardest Brexit possible.

I've tried talking to Leavers. I meet a few on my dog walks.

It's pointless. I could refute all their points with facts until the cows come home.

It's a cult. It really is.

People have been swallowing the guff fed to them by the Daily Mail and the Telegraph for years. And now the government.

They cannot ever admit that Brexshit is proper shit news.

Now we all know that Leavers wanted the hardest Brexit possible.

That shit is fucking me off too. All of the leave leaflets said we'd leave with (an easy!) deal. But why let facts get in the way of propaganda?

It's a cult. It really is.

Yes it is /but don't give up. I've talked before on here about both my FiL and close friend's Mum. Both true beLeaVers. FiL is intransigent but..

Friend's Mum was previously very active on FB denigrating the EU with regurgitated rhetoric and unchecked sound bites. Poppies, flags, empire, money wasted on Brussels, going to take us over rah rah rah. I tried responding with explanations of how much benefit unrestricted trade gave us, the costs of leaving etc but I got the 'experts don't know everything' type responses. In the end I couldn't bear it and avoided her posts.

Recently I checked and she is now saying "The Tories need to solve this mess they created" . On the one hand that's a bit rich (as she was very proactive in recruiting Leave votes in the ref.), however even she seems to be acknowledging what a mess it is. So even those who appear cult members can shift.