Why do people here have a stash for Brexit?

[ssd]

I can see the point if it's medicines or medical supplies, but I've seen a few threads here where people are stashing tuna, toilet rolls and sweets!?

Are you all fucking mad?

I'm a total remainder but come on, I know it'll be shit but you'll still find asda and tesco will be open

There are no individual EU foods vital for our survival but as there isn’t enough food produced in the UK to feed everyone, the EU food supplies are vital.

Exactly, as are the non-EU food supplies that are imported under trade deals negotiated by the EU.

We could theoretically all survive on milk and turnips or whatever, but there won't be enough milk and turnips to go round.

Yes, it does. However we currently have a system that works. Getting trade deals with other countries won't happen instantly and without a few hiccups. Hence, having a buffer of a few weeks worth of food is sensible.

My post in response to to Tom.

Tom most of our non-EU imported food is imported via EU agreements:

"Half the UK’s food is imported: 30% comes from the EU, and another 11% comes from non-EU countries under the terms of trade deals negotiated by the EU."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-47470864

Where our food comes from

Trade deals are going to take a lot longer than a few weeks. The hope is simply that the initial chaos will have subsided after that period of time, and that some alternative system will be in place to get goods across the boarder (which will likely come with heavy tariffs. Be prepared for your food bill to soar).

Janista Thu 25-Jul-19 13:27:54
I am in Oz

Of course, Janista is front-line with her bravery

*border not boarder!

All our current trade deals with 3rd countries are made as a member of the EU. Not impossible to make new ones or even roll over but we don't have that covered to match what we have now. And it may be bumpy until we get new ones. And making a deal when you are desperate is not a good way to negotiate.

Sorry for the double post above- mumsnet was being strange!

There's some interesting stuff on this page: www.parliament.uk/brexit-food-security It's from 2018, and it's amazing to see how the government's position has moved on.

The Government hopes to negotiate an agreement with the EU that will allow the ‘frictionless’ import of food to the UK to continue. This was a clear priority for witnesses and, given its importance to the UK’s food supply, we strongly support this objective.

This taken from the government response is interesting. In 2018, it was acknowledged that a "frictionless" import of food was pretty much essential for UK food security- but clearly this won't happen if we no deal. I would love someone to ask Boris how he intends to keep us all fed.

I think for the people being willfully ignorant about this- not just those who have burried their heads in the sand or not paid attention- here is the real question.

Say, for a month, we are only getting in 70% of our usual food supply (I reckon this is a generous estimate)- how do you expect the UK to cope. Is it a case of "I'll be alright, Jack" and you expect 30% of the country to starve? Because when you say "Oh I'll just buy British" (ignoring the potential problems with that), that's almost, kind of, what you're implying.

o we don’t import food from elsewhere in the world? Just the EU?

Much of what we import from the rest of the world does not come straight to the UK. The ships land in the Dutch ports (amongst others) where they are unloaded, the goods moved onto lorries, and then the goods are driven to the uk via the Calais/Dover crossing.

That same one I mentioned earlier that had queues of trucks 44km long (ie the distance to Belgium) when the Brexit practice was happening.

Assuming only 10% of those lorries get through (governments own suggestion of possible reality) that’s a hell of a lot of food that won’t make it onto the shelves.

Why would you want or consider acceptable to import stuff from far away, air freight costs and pollution on top, when you have a perfectly working supply chain closer to home?

I totally agree with verticality. And I had an hilarious conversation with a colleague that started saying “we just need to plant more trees! Grow more of our own lemons and oranges and stuff!” And me:

After Seville, the famous Orange of the Midlands :-D

Of course trees grow in a week, and you don’t have to think about planting fruits and vets weeks ahead. No no. It’s all on Pinterest, easy!

Also, doesn't a proportion of our Non-EU food come via EU ports like Rotterdam first? So even assuming a trade deal, there would be hiccups in the supply chain?

Well the simple answer is that 'those is the know' (whom I've actually met) are getting a months worth of everything in. And 3 months of medication (if they don't go off)

I'm not scaremongering.

@verticality, I agree it'll take more than a few weeks, and I know why, too having done a lot of research. Was just dumbing it down a little

I know we've all been over and over this, but I still think these threads can be useful to people who might be lurking, like I did for a long time.
I found mumsnet via a Google about stockpiling after a friend asked me what I thought and I'm embarrassed now to say that I'd not given it any thought at all.

Because I'm lazy and I don't want to be standing in Lidl with the hangry people in the aftermath.

Something like 80% of the food we enjoy in our supermarkets is imported either from or through the EU.

Our supermarkets operate a just in time policy when it comes to warehousing, I think it's a weeks worth of food they have in stock?

When the snow happened early 2018 our local shops ran out of fresh food by the end of day one. By the time the snow thawed enough for lorries to get through four days later they were pretty much empty.

I don't see is as a "stash for Brexit" however, when I'm having a good money month I buy one or two extra tins, packs of pasta, bottle of squash, etc. It means that in the bad months or in the event that I can't get to the shops I'm covered.

Cross posted with a few people there!

I think part of the problem is that so many people are divorced from the reality of food production. They don't understand how long it takes to produce a productive crop, or grow a fruit tree, or build up a dairy herd. It's already too late to step up our food production.

They also probably don't understand how this food is harvested- usually using mechanized vehicles which need fuel and parts (some of which are not made in the UK).

They almost definitely don't understand how much our farming industry relies on migrant labour. It's not just fruit pickers, BTW. I know dairy farms who rely on migrant labour too, year round. A lot of abattoirs rely on EU labour. I believe a growing proportion of large animal vets come from the EU (home grown vets tend to prefer equine work, or small animal work).

I think they also don't realise that the UK farming industry has lurched from crisis to crisis since BSE (and possibly before but this is the earliest I really remember?). Farmers have been told to diversify and they have- going back to full scale food production will take time (years in some cases) and how is the government planning to fund this?

There was a thread recently with people bitching about supermarkets not having enough frozen stuff in for the couple of blistering hot days we had recently. Including ice cubes ffs.
And they didn't see the connection with food supply and distribution problems in the event of No Deal.
Because of attitudes like that.

So we don’t import food from elsewhere in the world? Just the EU?

JFC

How do you think it gets here, Tom? Teleporter?

I’d just like to know what foods we import from the EU are vital for my survival?

I don’t want to just ‘survive’ post brexit thanks.

Getting slightly off subject but this article talks about how EU vets are pretty essential in the UK: veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/180/18/432

Fun fact: 95% of all posts in the meat hygiene sector are held by graduates from non-UK vet schools.

No-deal Brexit might just be the push I need to become a proper vegetarian!

Ffs, even the supermarket chiefs were begging May to avoid a no deal earlier in the year.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/28/no-deal-brexit-price-rises-retailers-sainsburys-asda-ms-coop

For those who don't want to click through, excerpts below:

"The retailers expressed particular concern about fresh foods, saying it is impossible to stockpile produce such as salad and fruit.
The bosses – who include the Sainsbury’s chief executive, Mike Coupe; the Asda chief executive, Roger Burnley; and the Marks & Spencer CEO, Steve Rowe; as well as the heads of the Co-op, Waitrose, Costcutter, KFC UK, Pret a Manger, Lidl and McDonald’s – said retailers typically store no more than two weeks’ stock.
They said that “as prudent businesses” they are stockpiling in order to be prepared for no deal but with frozen and chilled storages nearing capacity, there is very little general warehousing space available in the UK."

"While we have been working closely with our suppliers on contingency plans, it is not possible to mitigate all the risks to our supply chains and we fear significant disruption in the short-term as a result if there is no Brexit deal,” the letter said.
The store bosses warned of “major disruption” at Calais, a key route for food imports to the UK, potentially reducing freight trade by nearly 90%, as the French government has said it will enforce sanitary and customs checks on exports from the EU, which will cause long delays.
“For consumers, this will reduce the availability and shelf life of many products in our stores,” the letter said.
The retail analysts GlobalData said food price inflation could rise to about 5.1%, from 2.4%, in the case of a no-deal Brexit."

socks - sorry, that wasn't directed at you personally, more a general observation! I know you got it!

"the famous Orange of the Midlands"

I laughed out loud! Imagine the sweet-smelling lemon groves of Leeds!!

We also need to draw attention to the reliance of supply chains on imported foods. Because very few people are cooking meals from scratch with only British produce. Many things that come in a packet are likely to be exposed to shortfalls/shortages/price rises. I don't just mean processed foods, but things people consider 'basic' ingredients, like pasta.

It would be really, really interesting to show someone what you can harvest in Britain in the winter and then see if they are still up for no deal. I actually think the prospect of having to increase your personal swede consuption might change more people's minds than any political argument.

I hobby grow a lot of my own. It's fucking hard work and subject to the vagaries of all sorts of factors. And yes, apart maybe from some optimistic salad leaves, it's all root vegetables in the winter.

The Conservative Chair of the DEFRA Select Committee Neil Parish can see the writing on the wall down in his Devon constituency, about farming collapse and food insecurity. He's very much about pretending he's 'holding the Government to account' now.

I've put a fairly lengthy quote from his website below, and two things to bear in mind if you can be arsed to read it: it's all just aspirational, arse-covering gobshitery; this guy is the Tory select committee chair ffs.and

From Neil's website:

"Neil has three main priorities in the Brexit negotiations. He will be working hard to hold the Government’s feet to the fire on each:

"Maintaining Support Payments for Farmers

"Direct payments from the EU’s Common Agricultural Policy are worth around £3 billion per year to British farmers. They accounted for just over half of British farmers’ incomes in 2014. They are vital to the viability of many farms in Britain.

"During the referendum, prominent Leave campaigners promised “'The UK government will continue to give farmers and the environment as much support - or perhaps even more- as they get now”.

"Neil will hold the Government to account on this promise. He will work to ensure that farmers are not left out of pocket by Brexit and that a new post-Brexit agricultural payments system is designed to meet the specific needs of British farmers.

"Securing Free Trade Access

"The EU is a vital market for British agriculture and food & drink exports. EU member states account for 7/8 of the UK’s top agricultural export markets. In 2015, 93% of all British beef exports went to the EU – a trade worth £320 million.

"Neil believes it’s crucial the UK retains a close relationship with the EU market. On 14th September 2017, Neil's Committee launched an inquiry into trade in food post Brexit. The inquiry examines how a potential trade deal could affect farmers, food processors and consumers

"Environmental Protections

"Within the EU, the UK had to abide by common environmental standards. These include:

· Minimum standards for water quality at beaches and bathing sites

· Legal obligations on air quality to reduce nitrogen oxide levels in urban areas to below 40 micrograms per cubic metre

· A requirement to reduce greenhouse by at least 20% by 2020 and by 80% by 2050.

· A minimum of 20% energy from renewable sources by 2020.

"Neil believes these standards are vital to a healthy and sustainable environment. When Britain leaves the EU, Neil maintains the Government should keep the same rigorous environmental standards – and even seek to enhance them. In December 2016, Neil signed the Greener UK pledge, calling on the Government to establish the UK as a world leader on the environment after Brexit."