Those who said a few months back that a no-deal brexit would not happen no matter what

[StealthPolarBear]

and we were being ridiculous to worry about it, are you still as confident?

"Country/union probably excites you far more than it excites me, but pedantry is always worth a shot when you do not have a good argument. We trade like a country and, no, the union will not break up when and if we Brexit."
That sounds distinctly like someone who knows fuck all about it. But is happy not knowing and thinks that pointing out inconvenient reality is the work of "doomsters and gloomsters".

We trade like a country and, no, the union will not break up when and if we Brexit

Well it pretty much will if we revert to a sea border.

bellinisurge exactly! The kind of person who never cared about it, and is mildly irritated that the Scots and Irish aren't falling in line.

Exactly the kind of person I'm thankful I don't know in RL!

It is in their interests as much as ours to have continued free flowing trade.

With our negotiating skills we killed this one off from the very beginning - cake anyone?

Well it pretty much will if we revert to a sea border.

Which sets legal precedent for another border in the UK. Only this time it'll be on land, between Scotland and England.

All this fuss to stop the SNP gains and the DUP got in through the back door.

I sincerely hope Ian Blackford was right, that BJ is the last PM of the UK.

Jason118 cake sounds good!

Only this time it'll be on land, between Scotland and England.

Completely agree.

probstimeforanewname what is "hungry gap" time please?

Bearbehind the day BJ was announced, DP and I watched it all, live, horrified. Both of us were really quite worried and distressed by what was to come.

Sturgeon has been castigated for not calling Indy 2, for biding her time and not "getting on with it".

The email sent to all SNP members, at teatime that day, setting out terms for Indy 2 came as an enormous relief.

I understand it's not a given, I know it's not set in stone, but my god we needed hope that day and we got it.

I've been asking my English friends to move here if we get independence, I don't want to see England screwed, but hell if a lifeline is offered I'll take it!

InTheHeat,

'Which sets legal precedent for another border in the UK. Only this time it'll be on land, between Scotland and England.'

Total fantasy! But one ardent remainers love to perpetuate.

Why and how?

Scotland does 60% of its trade with the rest of the UK (mostly England) and has no plans to have its own currency. Yes, it can keep the pound, but that would make it a monetary vassal state to the rest of the UK.

If you think Brexit would be a nightmare for the UK, then Scotland leaving the union would be 10x the nightmare for Scotland, for all the same reasons.

It beggars belief the inconsistency with which some people argue that Brexit is suicide but Scotland leaving the union is somehow a trivial matter.

@larrygrylls , that is for the people of Scotland to decide. And if you don't realise why NI is different, you need to look very closely at your analysis skills.

larry the Indy ref result was marginal last time and one of the big influences for it failing was the promise of staying in the EU.

I don’t doubt for a second that the shit show that has been Brexit is enough to tip the balance next time.

Total fantasy!

Scotland does 60% of its trade with the rest of the UK (mostly England) and has no plans to have its own currency. Yes, it can keep the pound, but that would make it a monetary vassal state to the rest of the UK.

Scotland would have to join the Euro, as per EU conditions. Why on earth would we want to keep a currency about to collapse?

You'll need trading partners post brexit, so I'd be careful about cutting anyone off.

It beggars belief the inconsistency with which some people argue that Brexit is suicide but Scotland leaving the union is somehow a trivial matter.

Your comprehension skills are about as good as your geographical understanding.

We're fucked either way, but I'd rather be fucked and in the position of having good relations with our closest trading partners, than cutting off our nose to spite our face and sticking two fingers up at said closest trading partners.

NS has been in talks with EU leaders, making damn sure they know that the blithering idiots trying to negotiate for the UK aren't talking about Scotland. Comments from EU leaders, thankfully, show that they know this and would be prepared for Scotland to join the EU in the event of independence. Even Spain, who were the only member state who previously said they'd block it (Google Catalonia I cant be arsed trying to explain it in small words).

The only person indulging in fantasy here larry, is you and your little pals who have massively made a mistake but are clinging to a sinking ship still bleating about colonialism and rule brittania.

How are so many people so ignorant of very recent history?

What the hell is taught in schools?

It's interesting how quickly we've lost sight of the most important question in all this, the reason we have MPs in the first place and we all delight in the minutiae of point scoring back and forth (guilty as charged). The question is, and needs repeating loudly and at every opportunity- why are we hurting ourselves and our friends when we don't have to?

It’s quite funny, isn’t it, how Larry completely discounts the possibility that Scotland may make choices which are not entirely rational.
Perhaps he’s been asleep for the last three years? I’m feeling charitable.

The question is, and needs repeating loudly and at every opportunity- why are we hurting ourselves and our friends when we don't have to?

This is a question I've asked a lot over the last 3 years. I still don't have a conclusive answer.

Hubris springs to mind.

Scotland may make choices which are not entirely rational.

I'd disagree they're irrational. The majority of Scots voted to remain, which is irrelevant apparently. The Tories sole comment is that it was a UK wide vote. So WE didn't do anything irrational but are being told we have to go along with it.

So if we're going to be in a situation that's utterly ridiculous with two options, Scotland having a voice that's heard or not having a voice that's heard, we might as bloody well since within the UK our votes are irrelevant, both in terms of elections/referenda and the votes of elected MPs.

I can see those arguments.
The point is Larry seems to believe that Scotland will not vote for independence because there is risk attached. I genuinely don’t understand how someone can be so utterly obtuse. It beggars belief.

InTheHeat,

The hilarity just goes on.

So we will need a trading partner whose GDP is about 10% of the rump UK left after Scotland putatively leaves. But the EU will have no need of a trading partner whose GDP will be 12.5% of the remainder of EU after we leave?

'Scotland would have to join the Euro, as per EU conditions. Why on earth would we want to keep a currency about to collapse?'

You cannot just join the Euro, you have to join the ERM first. Would that be via thee pound or the newly created scottish pound?

By the way, joining a strong currency when you are a weak country is the way to get well and truly fucked, as Greece discovered....

Still at it. The point is that way, Larry >>>>
none so blind as them that wain’t see, as my dear FIL likes to observe

Why would tbe UK vote for Brexit if there was some risk attached- and yet people did @larrygrylls
So if Scotland is given the opportunity to vote again now that circumstances have changed (as it was promised it would be allowed to), why should it not take an arguably foolhardy decision because it thinks it is for the best in the long run. As the UK did.

Or is it different if it's Scottish people.

larrygrylls hilarity indeed.

Off you pop, there's a dear. Let the people who actually have a chance at a future separate from this utter shitshow work out the realities of it.

The British empire is over, the UK is soon to be over. So really, what Scotland does or doesn't do is none of your business, maybe if you'd considered the other nations in the UK at any point before now we wouldn't be here would we?

Poetic justice it would be, if only ordinary, decent English and Welsh people weren't going to suffer for it.

But when they do, know that it's down to you and your fellow leave voters. Who voted for unicorns and were left with a steaming pile of horse shit instead.

Your attitude towards Scotland and NI is sadly representative of a certain type of person. One who I will be more than relieved not to be lumped in with any longer.

You're a stereotype.

Or is it different if it's Scottish people.

He's probably busily singing god save the Queen complete with the line about heathen Scots and cursing the fact that Scotland and NI are actually in the best position of any of the UK nations currently.

Because we have a way out.

I hate that it can't be the same for England and Wales, I really do. I don't want to see people suffer.

But Scotland and NI never voted for this and I don't see why we should be shackled to a sinking ship, which is sinking because of votes in England and Wales.

I live near border - would like it if Boris had the decency to come here and speak to us about what exactly he expects to happen come October or don't we matter?

None of us matter.

All he cares about is money and power.

Unfortunately for the Island of Ireland the crazy plan will impact you first and probably worse.