Those who said a few months back that a no-deal brexit would not happen no matter what

[StealthPolarBear]

and we were being ridiculous to worry about it, are you still as confident?

Telling me to read the fucking thread is snippy

No, it's standard practice on MN for those irritating know it alls who blather onto threads without reading the full thread. Hence the acronym.

Until you're appointed thread police, I can tag whomever I like.

Jesus wept are you 5?

I’m still in 2 completely opposite minds on this.

On one hand I still don’t think any PM will want to push the button on no deal as they know how ill prepared we are and how bad it will be

On the other hand, I think no deal is the only way to prove to Leavers how bad it will be so maybe it does need to happen.

@InTheHeatofLisbon - Jesus wept are you 5?

Nope. Simply responding in a similar tone to your post.

Corbyn wants Brexit but has to pretend he doesn't
Johnson does not want Brexit but has to pretend he does
therefore any attempt at sane analysis of the antics at Westminster is doomed to fail.

Live is much less stressful once you accept that its all random and insane
and just look after you and yours
sad but true

Socksontheradiator it's about all we can do I think. It's been ongoing for so long, with nothing but bickering and elitist twats in the HoC throwing barbs and insults at each other that it's become an absolute farce.

I don't want a No Deal, but then I didn't want to Leave either so it kind of feels like whatever we feel is irrelevant.

Totally agree with ListeningQuietly. It is impossible to analyse what is happening at Westminster. If it is impacting on your mental health - you need to turn off the news and concentrate on your own day to day. Also too many people posting who watch 30 mins of Robert Peston or other news programmes and suddenly become 'experts' ready to shout down all the other 'experts' who think differently.

We're fucked. Whatever happens, we're fucked

Not whatever happens. If Boris would grow a backbone and go to the EU and say he's happy for the UK to stay in the SM and CU all the problems would disappear at a stroke (except for the insane no-dealers). Ireland is sorted, we leave, and we leave without destroying the economy - or indeed the integrity of the UK. NS could still call a referendum in Scotland but I think if we stayed in the EEA it would still be a no to independence. And I don't think there'd be a border poll in Ireland either.

Boris could do that and then get on with fulfilling all those domestic pledges he's made.

Your current government comes across as arrogant, intransigent and incompetent

Only those three adjectives?

Over-privileded arseholes using the population of the UK (and indeed, not just the UK) as pawns?

But I hope the non-UK-MNers reading this remember one thing this is a coup, this government was not elected

If Boris would grow a backbone and go to the EU and say he's happy for the UK to stay in the SM and CU all the problems would disappear at a stroke (except for the insane no-dealers). Ireland is sorted, we leave, and we leave without destroying the economy - or indeed the integrity of the UK. NS could still call a referendum in Scotland but I think if we stayed in the EEA it would still be a no to independence. And I don't think there'd be a border poll in Ireland either.

I'd take that in a heartbeat, and I say that as an SNP member who has always been Yes.

But if there's a way to stop the whole of the UK from going off the cliff edge I'd take that over Indy 2.

In any other situation I'd be all for independence, but the one you describe seems like a way out.

Sadly that would require humility and grace from Johnson, neither of which he possesses.

this is a coup, this government was not elected

It was never elected, May was propped up by the DUP (in most things) to have a majority.

@probstimeforanewname - But I hope the non-UK-MNers reading this remember one thing this is a coup, this government was not elected

Every single one of the MPS was elected though. My understanding of the UK system is that a government is never elected directly? The biggest party, or a coalition of parties forms the government and the PM is the leader of the biggest party. Then he/she chooses ministers. So the only anomaly here is that the PM changed mid-cycle and changed all the ministers.

Is that correct or am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing that the Government has no majority. All Governments with no majority have problems getting their legislation through.

The PM could be someone who commanded the support of the house - which usually means that it goes to the biggest party. Suppose the DUP withdraw their support. Johnson could easily not command the support of the house, so who would become PM then?

@Peregrina - Yes, you are missing that the Government has no majority. All Governments with no majority have problems getting their legislation through.

Do they not have a majority of 1 or 2 at this stage (including the DUP)? They were still elected to parliament though.

You just have to hope that they get toppled, or maybe see sense, before they drive the UK off a cliff edge.

The very fact that the government doesn’t have a majority is evidence that there is no mandate for the Brexit the Tories are pursuing.

If it was what people wanted then TM should have increased her majority, instead she lost it.

Do they not have a majority of 1 or 2 at this stage (including the DUP)?

Eh? That’s precisely why they don’t have a majority.

Northern Ireland Question .......
The UK Parliament seats in Northern Ireland used to split 4 ways
DUP / UUP / SDLP / Sinn Fein
we all know that Sinn Fein do not take their seats
but what if the SDLP stood on a ticket of "Remain plus we'll vote for it at Westminster"
How would that affect the dynamic?
I have no idea so its a wide open question
Could it result in a change at the next GE which would burger up the Brexiters' maths ?

@Bearbehind - Eh? That’s precisely why they don’t have a majority.

Ok. I'm definitely confused. I know the Tories haven't a majority but are they not in coalition with the DUP, which would be the coalition having a majority government? Or is it a confidence and supply agreement, which makes it more complicated obviously?

Our government (Ireland) is in a confidence and supply agreement with the next largest party at the moment. The only reason they are still in it is because of brexit and the fact that an election would not be helpful.

It's confidence and supply, hence why the WA didn't get through parliament any of the 3 times it was proposed.

Couple of people have mentioned putting border in Irish sea

How does that work then

I don't understand

How can border be in sea when NI is part of uk?

I know the Tories haven't a majority but are they not in coalition with the DUP, which would be the coalition having a majority government? Or is it a confidence and supply agreement, which makes it more complicated obviously?

I’m really surprised that someone who posts here quite frequently doesn’t know this.

Freggling
Effectively NI remains part of the Customs Union

• easy to enforce
• they already have different laws on lots of things
• an utter anathema to the DUP
• the ultimate aim of Sinn Fein

until there is a new trade and customs agreement

How can border be in sea when NI is part of uk?

It can't. It couldn't ever be. It messes with the GFA.

You cannot negotiate without being able to deal with the alternative.

Isn’t that negotiation 101? Preparing for no deal is just common sense as it may happen.

How can border be in sea when NI is part of uk?

It can't. It couldn't ever be. It messes with the GFA.

No it doesn’t - a hard border messes with the GFA. A sea border is a possible solution but messes with the union.

Preparing for no deal is just common sense as it may happen
If only the UK had done so