All threads in brexit seem to anti brexit? Mn is usually balanced... Were are pro b threads?

[Knittedjimmychoos]

Looking for some lighter brexit relief by fellow leavers... Every thread I've glanced at seems to be dominated by renainers?

Is there any space for leaver on here?

Just interested... I wanted to chat...

The UK can leave without signing the WA, but the EU will not open any more negotiations without it.
It is similar to the WTO. The WTO rules are simply rules, but the tariffs that various blocs use is set by negotiation adding 'numbers' to the rules.

The failure of the WA is entirely down to self serving MPs from across all parties.

The SNP - entirely consumed by their quest for independence & hatred of all things Tory

The DUP - refusal to countenance reality

Lib Dems (& Tiggers or whatever they call themselves now) - refusal to accept anything other than remain

Labour - consumed by bringing down the govt & getting power

Tories - a mix of the 'nothing but remain' & ERG 'nothing but no deal' wankers

Obviously I am only referring to those MPs who voted against the WA - the many Tories & a smattering of Labour etc who voted for it are not included in my contempt - the rest of them all put ideology before country

Attacking leave voters on MN or in general for exercising their democratic right to vote is pathetic - it is our incompetent, self-serving 'representatives' who have screwed the country over

Dusty - why should MP's vote for a terrible WA?

It puts us in an awful position, paying in, taking the rules and zero say, for what could be for many years, its not anything a great nation such as ours should be signing up to.

Unfortunately, Brexit needed a majority Govt in order to set the plans, negotiate well and to get the legislation through the HoC

I would also argue that MPs have in fact stopped the UK from making an even bigger mess of things.

The PM who caused this and who we should all be xxxx ed off with is David Cameron.

Agree that a majority govt was necessary, but it didn't happen - so pointless hankering after the 'should haves', Parliament needed to deal with the reality.

The WA was not perfect, absolutely, but it provided the means & framework to move on to settling the future arrangements.

To vote against it meant only two possible outcomes - no deal or no Brexit

MPs who wanted one or the other so badly they were prepared to play poker with it are few in number - the majority of the MPs who voted against were driven entirely by party politics & that is beyond shameful in my opinion

Having the WA signed and entering a transition period is one of the 'least bad' ways of leaving, as although the UK would be paying into the EU, and would not be able to vote on new legislation, it can continue at current zero tariffs thus minimising the shock.
Signing after the UK leaves would be effectively under duress as there would be no transition period, but with the possibility of significant new deals with other countries it would be better than 'cold turkey'.

The WA was the least worst option
and opened the door to the next ten years of putting together a trade deal.
Without it the UK is in the doo doo.

The WA was the least worst option
and opened the door to the next ten years of putting together a trade deal.
Without it the UK is in the doo doo.

Or the UK could remain and not be in the doo doo.

Of course the biggest unknown is how a new or reformed government will get into gear and actually formulate a proper plan. It is all very well being 'out' on 1 November but so far no one has said where the UK is going 'out' to. If there is no fully worked out plan available, the UK cannot negotiate with anyone until it decides what the plan is. With a divided government and dallying and arguing will make the 'vacuum' worse. This is probably why there is the start of a 'purge' of ministers as to get the fastest decision it really needs a dictatorship with no dissention.
Sopt the problem in that Boris has no clue or at least won't work hard and consistently. Perhaps this is why having IBS* as 'henchman' to come up with a strategy seems to be happening. BoJo the clown and sidekick, who has the 'ideas'.

• intentional, the plans are shit.

No, the WA was not the least worst option. We could absolutely have gone for a soft Brexit, remaining within our nearest and most influential trading bloc with minimum shock to our trade arrangements and day to day lives. This would have been sensible, given the close result of the referendum. Instead we've been held hostage to May's stupid red lines that were incompatible with any of the agreements available. Jobs and investments have already gone and more are going. Now we have a government actually aiming for no deal with nowhere near enough preparation for such a huge step. It's not only tragic, it is absolutely stupid. And yet here we are, trundling over the cliff edge like idiots. I despair for our country.

Is there anything the EU could have done to make you turn against them?

@mummmy2017 we are the EU!

Is there anything the EU could have done to make you turn against them?

Well, they could have taken away our rights, oh no, hang on - the people who are doing that are our own government.

Why turn against your allies? For changes sake. Makes no sense. But then I wouldnt expect coherent sentences from some posters on here.

I don't see how we can turn against something which a) we had a huge hand in creating and b) we are a beneficiary of that system. If we didn't like it we could have seeked to amend the bits we didn't like.

Is there anything the EU could have done to make you turn against them?

Well, i'm not entirely comfortable with a few aspects of our membership but overall i think being in the EU and being part of a much larger bloc of countries is better than being on our own.

Globalisation, like it or not will become even greater, the world faces huge challenges and the UK is no longer the Super power some like to think.. see how little presence we have in the Gulf! a country like Iran would take us part at will.

Reliance on the US has proven problematic - Iraq anyone? and under Trump will get worse.
The commonwealth exists only in ReesMogg's mind, they are almost all independent countries and don't need the UK.

We should seek to change the things we don't like or learn to adapt.

Brianne. Seeked is not a word. But then I wouldnt expect coherent grammar from some of the supercilious posters on here.

again, we are the EU. Can't turn against ourselves. If I don't like a decision of aspect of it, I can lobby my mep on that issue and or become involved in the public engagement projects. Leaving would mean a massive loss of sovereignty, control and influence. Even the current Tory government has not put me of the idea of democratic government itself.

Jas. We should seek to change the things we don't like or learn to adapt.
I used to think that but now I no longer think it's possible. The character of England and Wales and the spirit of the EU just don't seem compatible.

Mummy Is there anything the EU could have done to make you turn against them ?

Honestly , given how limited their scope actually is in the 'how to piss Frumpety off' stakes, I cannot think of anything that would cause me to believe that giving up membership would still be the best option for the citizens of the UK. I believe in collaboration and cooperation though

If I don't like a decision of aspect of it, I can lobby my mep on that issue and or become involved in the public engagement projects Good luck with that. The EU top brass just rejected the MEPs spitzenkandidats and just imposed their choice, Ursula instead. Do the MEPs have any power at all? I dobut it. That's why it all runs so "smoothly" in the approved direction.

I believe in collaboration and cooperation though. I do too but I don't want to collaborate in a project that I don't approve of. And I don't really approve of the single currency, federalism, enforced austerity or uncontrolled free movement. The EU will not alter its course for one country (quite rightly) so if the majority of the country don't like some of the basic principles of the EU then we really do have to leave.

But we don't have the single currency or uncontrolled free movement as part of the EU?

we are the EU!
This is really what it boils down to. There is a split between those of us who understand this and so also want us to remain and have our voices heard and those who erroneously see the EU as external, "imposing" laws on us. This is why the sovreignty argument seems to be so important to Leavers (unless of course they are asked to really accept UK parliamentary sovereignty) because they don't realise that we had a strong voice in the EU. We have thrown our reputation away with both hands.

I remember being called liar over the EU Army, yet they do want it.
The Swiss have backed away as well where once they wanted to join, as they don't like the direction things are headed.
The you have just how long it takes to make a trade deal and that one country can derail everything. .
Too many cheifs.