All threads in brexit seem to anti brexit? Mn is usually balanced... Were are pro b threads?

[Knittedjimmychoos]

Looking for some lighter brexit relief by fellow leavers... Every thread I've glanced at seems to be dominated by renainers?

Is there any space for leaver on here?

Just interested... I wanted to chat...

So according to your views you all know more than the MPs who are briefed

I think you overestimate the knowledge and understanding of a number of MPs, including those who felt the need to be briefed on the how UK trade works at the end of March, just days before the UK was due to leave.

But you know better because you read a report put out by someone who has their own agenda

You do understand what the OBR is and what they do?

And exactly which reports do you think Brexiteer MPs have been reading?

@mummmy2017 , I'd like to think my posts on building up your pantry in a proportionate and budget friendly way in case of a no Deal Brexit are helpful.
I'd like to think my defence of GFA in the face of the risk of No Deal Brexit on here is useful.
I'd like to think my preparedness to accept WA as a compromise was useful considering I voted Remain.
Why, @mummmy2017 , what have you done for Brexit?

I ask again .
Your all so well informed, what direct influence have personally had with regards to Brexit?
Did you maybe agree a new tariff?
Turn a vote....
Agree what font they use on the agenda for next week?

Mummmy I'm procrastinating whilst working from home - meant to be doing some reports for farmers. I work for a charity. Keeping up to date with Brexit news as it fills me with despair and I want to know if there's anything I can do to change it.
I don't work for the Commission

I can admit that if any of us disappeared of the face of the earth it would not effect Brexit. We have no influence, what we write here might at most effect 2 or 3 people in some way over Brexit, but nothing more...
I maybe gained 100 votes for the leave campaign, but had I done nothing the result would have still stood.
I know this, can accept this, I don't think most on this thread can accept their views ,words effect nothing.

I don't think you know what you are talking about.

If you convinced 100 people to vote leave they must have been very easily swayed by poor arguments.

I've got a question for the echo chamber (if it is one).
What do you think about the way Ursula v d Leyen was just appointed? Does it bother you at all that the spitzenkandidat concept has been junked?
I suppose what I am asking is are you really happy with the state of democracy in the EU and don't you think there are dangers with remaining in it?

While I am not proposing it as a course of action, but Ms Emily Wilding Davison certainly changed opinions. She changed things for the better for many women and children.

twentyp it’s a step backwards, but then what is democratic about 0.4% of the UK electorate being allowed to choose the next UK PM?

1tisILeClerc. This should have been done as soon as DC offered you the vote .
Marches , GFA and all the other good points your raising now, if you had made enough noise before the vote you WOULD have swung it ...people would have listened and heard you ..

Well probably less than 0.4% of the electorate, since 15, 16 and 17 yr olds can vote in the Tory leader elections, despite the Tories refusing to enfranchise 16 and 17 yr olds in GEs.

ContinuityError

While the appointment of Ursula v d Leyen was a little unusual, it was done with a lot of consideration and seeing as the EU needs to pull with as unified a response as possible without getting dragged to extremes she is probably a good choice. If it were based on 'purist' lines, I am a little concerned, but accept that perfection on this planet is impossible. Her qualities will have put her as a 'front runner'.
Her role is as a spokesperson for the EU and she will be required to present the EU position in meetings with other world leaders. She will not be 'flying solo' and what she says will be planned by the elected heads, so in many respects the slightly unusual process that got her there is unimportant.
Democracy is not possible in the purest sense.
Democracy is a 'goal' for most Western countries, but it is easy to find failings in that. Countries that are not democratic do not HAVE to be horrible and badly run, although having a dictatorship that rules fairly is rather rare.
If this was intended as a post to 'bash' the EU, it would be wise to consider what supposed democracy is producing in the UK, with a poorly run referendum in 2016, with lies and foreign money influencing the result. A prospective new PM that is prepared to lie and change his story whenever it suits him.
Ultimately it is not the 'democratic' status of the leadership, but how well the country is run as experienced by all it's citizens. Despite democracy, the UK has been badly governed for many decades.

What with reading mummy’s post this morning and seeing the chanting at the Trump rally I’m now thoroughly fucking depressed at just how ignorant, easily led and full of bile my fellow human beings are capable of being.

ContinuityError
We voted in the Tory party
The people who are voting have two people from a field of over a dozen that was narrowed down by the MPs, who themselves were voted in by about 17 millions people ..
Is this not the same as when labour voted in JC....

Lonelycrab
I think Echo Chamber is the best comment i have ever heard with regard to the MN Brexit threads ..
I am voicing the way people think but you don't heard it voiced so it you are shocked by my views.
Both candidates raised their hand when asked will we leave on the TV interview....

@mummmy2017

Labour Party members were not voting in a new PM with Corbyn.

It’s more applicable to compare with Brown becoming PM - seem to remember a certain Boris Johnson claiming that only party members choosing the UK PM was undemocratic and calling for a GE.

Funny how Johnson doesn’t seem to find it undemocratic any more.

And it was 13.8 million Tory voters in 2017 - less than 30% of the electorate.

Ultimately it is not the 'democratic' status of the leadership, but how well the country is run as experienced by all it's citizens. Thank you for replying 1tis.
So you would rather have a well-run benign dictatorship than a ramshackle democracy? I can't agree with you at all. I think the EU is a very dangerous experiment in government that has grown far too rapidly and is not properly tested. What's to stop an even more right wing person being appointed and imposing austerity/military conscription on every member state. They will not be able to leave or opt out as they are so entangled economically.
It's proving pretty hard for the UK to leave and we aren't even in the Eurozone!

From what I can tell, the appointments in EU are achieved using a tortuous consensus based process that depends on the input of a huge number of democratically elected national leaders & their deputies and the civil servants they appointed to represent their countries' interests.

Did each decision along the way get voted upon, of course not, but no democracy can actually function like that; would be gridlock way to get anything done. Were the appointments arrived at via a process that used representative leaders created from democratic processes, where everyone compromises and no one rides roughshod over all others in every decision? Yes. The appointments are effectively the EU civil service type positions.

FWIW, I don't really imagine UK possibly staying in EU, btw, if motives of posters matter at all, I'll say this. But I do want a Brexit that limits damage & produces opportunities. We have no such Brexit possible if Johnson or Hunt keep their promises to crash out.

"Iam voicing the way people think but you don't heard it voiced so it you are shocked by my views."

I am shocked you still think it's Leave vs Remain. It's now No Deal vs Everything that isn't No Deal.
If you are a No Dealer, do you seriously expect any respect?
If you voted Leave but don't want No Deal, what are you doing about it?

Did each decision along the way get voted upon, of course not, but no democracy can actually function like that; would be gridlock way to get anything done.
That's exactly how democracies function! Changes happen very slowly and only with consent. Only dictatorships can force things through and "get things done" quickly. They are very dangerous.

What's to stop an even more right wing person being appointed and imposing austerity/military conscription on every member state.

How could the EU possibly proscribe military conscription for member states?

It can't proscribe an EU army either, before that is claimed.

Don't you think it ironic your facing a leaver handing you a no deal in just over three months....

Only dictatorships can force things through and "get things done" quickly. They are very dangerous.

Yeah - because it's not like the Tories are considering ways to dissolve Parliament in order to push through policies that Parliament won't possibly accept

But I do want a Brexit that limits damage & produces opportunities. Me too lljkk.
We have no such Brexit possible if Johnson or Hunt keep their promises to crash out. I'm not so sure about that. I think it will come good with the right stimulus measures, whether they're Johnson's right wing ones or Corbyn's left wing ones. Both are into green technology and transport infrastructure investment funnily enough - I think they have far more in common than they realise.

Why are MPs not taking us out if it's good for the UK?

Both Johnson and Hunt have pledged to take UK out of the EU. They both know If they don’t they will suffer the same fate as T May and the gravy train associated with being an MP comes to an end when the next general election is held.

T May tried two strategies and they both failed. Called an election in 2017 hoping to gain a majority of seats, but had to pay DUP £1.5 Billion to get a majority.

Tried to force the WA three times and even suggested that it was WA or no brext