All threads in brexit seem to anti brexit? Mn is usually balanced... Were are pro b threads?

[Knittedjimmychoos]

Looking for some lighter brexit relief by fellow leavers... Every thread I've glanced at seems to be dominated by renainers?

Is there any space for leaver on here?

Just interested... I wanted to chat...

The remainers on this site wishing old people dead always turns me off discussion

Similar views have been expressed on Question Time. Can't remember the woman's name, but she suggested that taking into account how many people have died since the 2016 referendum a second referendum had to be held.

That's another tired cliche. I know some people do it but given that 86 year old Remain voting mum has died- it was her last vote- I find it offensive and have called it out more than once on here.
In my experience, it is the baby boomers (I'm just too young to be one) who were more inclined to vote Leave than the very old like my mum. They were shielded from the worst effects of war and rationing by their parents (my parents ' generation) and were brought up, as I was, on a diet of morale boosting, patriotic black and white war movies on BBC2 in which everyone was upbeat, brave "just got on with it " etc etc.
Obviously there are people of both generations who don't fall into that category.

Only read the first few posts but already have to say @MsMarvellous I'm so impressed with your comment. It's hard to change vote when you really believed in something but I admire that you're willing to do that after seeing what has happened.

FullFact has a page on economists' forecasts about the impacts of a Leave result in 2016 Referendum. Their headline is

Forecasts shortly after the referendum were fairly accurate over the medium term, but not from year to year.

"statistics for the being loads of applicants for medical and nursing degrees"

12 July 2018 talks about how many applicants & how many places. 35,260 for 25,850 places in 2018/19.

25% of nurses drop out before completing the course, though, so shortage built in. 25% seems to have been the attrition rate for at least a decade.

Seems to be about 9 applicants per place to study medicine in UK.

2018 Applications for midwifery courses = 14625.
2018 places to study midwifery. I can't find a stat for how many spaces are available to study midwifery, but that Telegraph article talks about plan to increase MW workforce by about 3500 after 4 years. Student room threads are talking about 1400 applications for 25 places, etc.

Real problem in staff supply is probably attrition... those who don't complete the course or leave the profession within 5 yrs after qualifying. Plus just churn... people taking career breaks, leaving one employer for another, time it takes to recruit another HCP, sick leave, etc.

"But I am just feed up of people who won't admit what is just around the corner and refuse to admit there can ever be any good in the UK's future..."
Sounds like Pollyanna Johnson to me.
You don't have a monopoly on loving your country or wishing it well. It's the thought of a brilliant country being plunged into shitness with No Deal that is so horrible.
We deserve better and, as shown by the miracle of GFA and so much more, we've worked hard for it.
Spunking it up the wall for a unicorn fantasy is so sad. Leave if we must; make something of that because we can, but don't No Deal.

mummy you've been arguing for a couple of years that you don't know how Brexit can be delivered, but that we' pay' people (MPs) who must enact it on our behalf, but you have apparently never questioned the fact that they seem unable to do so. IMO, these people know Brexit will fuck our country and our economy, are not prepared to admit this, and therefore endlessly prevaricate. What do you think their reasons are for not delivering it if not the above? If Brexit is going to benefit our country, why do you think these MPs haven't been working at full throttle to deliver it? Is it because they don't want us to succeed as a country? I think MPs know it's going to impact negatively on jobs, the economy, our standing abroad, our NHS, and would like the whole thing to quietly go away so they can get on with other stuff. Why do you think they haven't taken us out yet, mummy?

IMO, these people know Brexit will fuck our country and our economy, are not prepared to admit this, and therefore endlessly prevaricate

That does not help. Just gives EU more time to be better prepared for a no deal than the UK.

Possible that MPs though they could avert the result of the referendum, Brexit party standing 2nd in the polls may have made some MPs re-think. Change UK Party was formed with the sole policy of not leaving the UK and they are nowhere to be seen in the EU elections or the UK Polls.

Will MPs sacrifice their lucrative jobs and perks to support what they believe is best for the UK or will they look after Number 1? I would say the latter.

Why do you think they haven't taken us out yet, mummy?

T May was a remain supporter and did not want UK to leave EU. Give a Muslim the task of selling pork outside a Christian Church and they will not try very hard.

OK.... is it just me, or is that religious allusion a) crass and b) insulting?

I don't know that Change UK was really formed with the policy of Leaving the EU. It was a mish-mash of people who had left their own parties for various reasons.

As for a Remain supporter becoming PM - it was up to the Leavers to get their own candidate in. Now that looks likely, we will see how he manages. If he runs true to form there will be a lot of clowning around, more money wasted, and little of substance. But he and his rich pals will be OK.

You haven't really answered the question there, Empire. Why are MPs not taking us out if it's good for the UK?

May was not a Remain PM - as demonstrated by her 'red lines' and attempts to appease the ERG headbangers (vs no attempt to appease the 48%). She may have campaigned for Remain pre-referendum, but that is not the same thing at all. Even Johnson publicly argued from both leave/remain positions. All that demonstrates is that they're venal.

Will MPs sacrifice their lucrative jobs and perks to support what they believe is best for the UK or will they look after Number 1? I would say the latter.
Why would their jobs and perks be 'sacrificed' if they took UK out of the EU and it was a resounding success? You could, however, apply your argument to Farage, who - acting against the interests of the UK - has gained considerably in wealth and fame/infamy.

Your last paragraph beggars belief.

May wanted to remain with some sort of deal...
She tied her own hands from the get go.
We should have said we are leaving ...now what do we need to sort from this view.

mummy you live in a parallel universe. May did what she was told according to the situation. She was Remain because of Cameron. Leave because of the referendum.

No she was weak, and selfish and willful of only her own way..
People quit her cabinet ....lots did as they did not agree with her...

May could have very justifiably gone for a soft Brexit, given the close vote. Or a long phased Brexit plan (over many years) with opportunities to slowly advance. Her red lines were panic to try to hold her party together.

If May really wanted Brexit to fail she would have left Rudd/Johnson/Gove to it, as their incompetence & intransigence would have accelerated the inevitable failure to secure any kind of viable deal and probably UK would have bounced back to Remain preference quickly. May's role made some kind of actual Brexit a lot more plausible.

All those people ringing radio phone-ins on 24 June saying they voted Leave but never actually wanted to Leave, and were horrified by the actual result. Where are they now??

{May wanted to remain with some sort of deal...
She tied her own hands from the get go.}

If the UK wants to be able to afford to eat, it will HAVE to make a deal with the EU. This is REALITY as the USA and other far away places do not have surplus and the means to convey the huge quantity of staple foods that the UK NEEDS.
No one here knows who said what at Chequers and the other 'crunch' meetings so attributing 'May's deal' to Theresa might not be correct. She knows that the UK has to form a good working relationship with the EU and as such was representing the country (albeit flawed) whereas the likes of the ERG don't give a damn about anyone except their family and friends.

But if we had just said we want to leave...
We will be leaving in 2 years time and will accept the WTA, so let's work back from there things would have been very different .
Now you are looking at the PM saying that but you lost your 2 year window .

mummmy2017 the people who we pay in government to work this out have just come up with this... (source - tweet by Faisal Islam):
No Deal Brexit forecast to lead to a £30 billion a year hit to the public finances per year, according to the first official projection from the Government’s independent udgetary watchdog - the OBR. Fall in tax revenues falling way short of money saved on EU fees

No Deal could cost us £30 Billion A YEAR. , according to the experts.
Things are certainly going to change, but for the worse.
I hope you and your family are educated, rich, young and healthy.

{accept the WTA,}

What is this?
If you mean the WTO, that is not a deal. The WTO establishes a set of trading rules that every country abides by. They are RULES not specific tariffs, although there is a 'base minimum' that is set, but no one trades under those tariffs as they are.
Everyone has negotiated deals with various other countries, and there are IIRC around 43 'blocs' of countries that cover the world, often overlapping making things a lot more complicated.
The idea of 'simply' using WTO base rates will cripple UK manufacturing and 'tricks' as proposed by some of setting zero tariffs, although sound enticing have MASSIVE negative effects.
This is due to other WTO rules on things like Most Favoured Nations and others. The EU has just signed up a trade deal with Japan, it has taken 20 years to be written.

The 'subs' paid by the UK into the EU is around £9 Billion.
There is also the fact that when the UK leaves, the rest of the world will circle like hyenas and pick off the bits that they fancy as the UK thrashes around for 'deals'.
if the GFA gets stomped on, the USA will not be rushing to do deals that are beneficial to the UK. Whether Fox and his crew might have better luck with China or Russia is questionable, and they certainly won't be 'good' deals looking at it from the UK side.

So according to your views you all know more than the MPs who are briefed and see all the reports paperwork, attend meetings can speak to anyone in charge of anything....But you know better because you read a report put out by someone who has their own agenda.

"So according to your views you all know more than the MPs who are briefed and see all the reports paperwork, attend meetings can speak to anyone in charge of anything."

Except lots of those MPs have been shown to be incorrect about almost everything they say. Check out Boris Johnson and his paragraph 5b/5C debacle.

Lots of politicians have glossed over the truth, or present studies that back their own views, but leave out the bits that they don't want people to hear.

The posters here are very well informed and very objective in their analysis. You appear to be the opposite of both.

Oh and your appeal to authority is ridiculous.

{So according to your views you all know more than the MPs who are briefed and see all the reports paperwork, attend meetings can speak to anyone in charge of anything.}

Collectively that is not impossible. There are contributors to, particularly the Westminsterenders threads, who research and gather bits of information from the UK, Germany, Italy, France and elsewhere.
Press releases by MPs and cabinet members are 'managed data' which only inform the public about things they want the public to know and are usually 'spun' to maximise effect. Triangulating on any aspect and testing whether such a statement can be accurate is both interesting and informative. Sticking your head in the sand and saying all will be fine, when it clearly won't be (and it has been degenerating for 3 years already) is hardly good.

I ask again .

Your all so well informed, what direct influence have personally had with regards to Brexit?
Did you maybe agree a new tariff?
Turn a vote....
Agree what font they use on the agenda for next week?

Hilariously poor post mummy.

Shows your level.