Good Friday Agreement

[CatherineTheLate]

It's often said (and this has been repeated here) that we cannot have a hard border with Ireland because of the Good Friday Agreement (Belfast Agreement). Obviously, this would only apply to goods anyway because the UK and Ireland have a Common Travel Area which predates the EU and its predecessors, but can someone point out to me which part of the GFA it would breach?

You can get a copy of the GFA here www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/136652/agreement.pdf and its only 35 pages long so it won't take long to read. Remainers will obviously be very keen to show me.

...this mess that English Leavers have created and are singularly incapable of fixing.

Whether the GFA specifies no border or not is irrelevant, once we leave the SM and CU there has to be a border, show me any country in the world that doesn't protect its own markets and security?

So if UK leaves with no deal does that not throw the border issue over to NI and ROI to solve?

I thought NI was part of the UK. Didn't you realise that are you thick or what?

I thought NI was part of the UK

On paper yes of course, but UK seems to ignore. Both Johnson and Hunt are saying UK will leave EU deal or not?

[sighs] @TheEmpireNoMore - it's not "on paper". This whole bloody chaotic mess is because it's part of the UK. Some people in NI DUP) are happy about this. Some would rather it wasn't so. Some people just want to live in peace and prosperity. GFA makes NI work despite all that. It's a magic trick that should be cherished.
Special Economic Zone idea would allow us to refresh the magic trick that is GFA and not fuck it up which is what No Deal Brexit does.

NI is part of the UK, its not a paper exercise!

Hunt and Johnson will find, as May did, that leaving the EU will be extremely problematic, their recent statements are to get elected, once in power, they will change their ideas, just as she did.

Remember "Brexit means brexit and we will make a success of it" or "We are leaving on 29/3 come what may"

How many times did she publicly repeat this? over 100 times.

Not wishing to get too deeply embroiled in this but I think the word 'trick' was not perhaps the best and has the risk of meaning different things to different people.
The GFA took 10 years of very hard negotiations from a lot of world experts to be hammered out. This gave the largest number of citizens from all viewpoints most of what they wanted. Since some of the aspects are polar opposites of course there will be difference of opinion. Everyone gained some things, and everyone lost other things, that is the way of negotiation.
There are 'regional differences' between Wales, Scotland, NI and England already.
What is certain is that before long one 'group' will have to give way unless the UK actually revokes. The main worry is what those that see themselves as 'losing' chose to do about it.

I love how this is presented as a remainers’ problem when all the red lines, hard border requirements, backstops and arguments against backstops etc have been created by leavers. The fact that we haven’t left yet is entirely down to leavers not being able to decide what leave means. The ball is in leavers’ court. Crack on

A border in the sea and having NI as a special economic zone seems like the only way forward. However there is absolutely no chance that the DUP will accept this.

{A border in the sea and having NI as a special economic zone seems like the only way forward.}

I believe this is the EU preferred situation (if the UK decides to crash out with no deal), and it would either work or could be made to work for the WTO requirement of a border for checking goods. Of course many goods are currently checked when travelling from NI to the rUK to prevent the spread of disease. I am not sure if these checks are carried out when they travel from NI to Ireland.

My only argument for the DUP is that this is the most likely way to keep NI out of ROI. Which the eventual demographic change will make inevitable. If NI is a prosperous entity in this format (re)unification won't be as attractive. And they get to still be big fish in a little bowl.

However there is absolutely no chance that the DUP will accept this

How can they call the shots when they have only 10 seats in Parliament? Seems like DUP want a no deal?

Borders in the sea are still borders.

We can debate/suggest/argue until we're blue in the face, the fact is that changing the EU membership of the UK does affect the GFA. It was known before the vote, and it was known afterwards.

What it wasn't, was considered sensibly by anyone in the Leave campaign or who voted to Leave.

It was brushed off as threats from the IRA whenever anyone dared suggest that the GFA (and therefore the ceasefire) was being compromised by the stupidity of the government.

Because it's all very well us sitting in our cosy homes bleating about war. The fact is that it isn't us who'll have to live with it again, and our lives won't be devastated by it.

But there are many who will be, and up until now they've been an afterthought.

For the thousandth time, it's up to the government to be honest and say there can be no brexit without ripping up the GFA therefore there can be no brexit.

@TheEmpireNoMore - Seems like DUP want a no deal?

The DUP oppose the GFA. No deal breaks the GFA. However, the irony, which they seem incapable of seeing, is that no deal and a hard border will, more than likely, speed up a border poll leading to a united Ireland.

"Seems like DUP want a no deal?" You think?
Obviously they do. It destroys GFA which they hated. It causes mayhem which they want to exercise control over. They are tossers.
NI voted Remain for a reason. Which, given the demographic, tells me Nationalists and Unionists supported Remain.

For balance, I despise Sinn Fein too.

Please tell me , @TheEmpireNoMore , that you knew this already.

no deal and a hard border will, more than likely, speed up a border poll leading to a united Ireland

Exactly and the majority in NI that voted to remain in EU get what they want.

Don't you realise that the people who voted Remain in NI are people who wanted the status quo. Not all nationalists. Bloody hell. Do you really not know this?

Please tell me @TheEmpireNoMore is a wind up merchant. Nobody making a comment on NI could be this ignorant.

@TheEmpireNoMore - Exactly and the majority in NI that voted to remain in EU get what they want.

Not quite........

A border in the sea and having NI as a special economic zone seems like the only way forward. However there is absolutely no chance that the DUP will accept this

Never quite understood this argument - the SNP will be enraged by NI getting this advantage, so might other regions in the UK that lose jobs to NI.
It also effectively breaks up the UK.

But as i've said before, Hunt and BJ will be forced to face reality and not just the tory membership.

Maybe another vote will happen? no-deal or a GE seem to be even worse options - for the new PM.

TheEmirie - the DUP all the shots with their 10 seats because of the confidence and supply agreement, which was necessary after May called a General Election and lost her overall majority. ie the governement needs them to support it, so therefore they can make outrageous demands.

(I'm in NI by the way and know many unionist and republican voters who voted remain, precisely because they could see how advantageous the status quo is)

Catherine other people have been good enough to explain things to you. They're better people than me. I'd have just told you that you're a right goady cunt.

Starting to suspect the DUP's cunning plan is to have a new border poll on the terms of the previous one, leaving us with an Even-More-Northern Ireland of Antrim, Down and Co. Londonderry minus the Bogside.

Then only necessary to buy that wall off the Germans and put it round West Belfast.

Behold the Orange Free State.