Good Friday Agreement

[CatherineTheLate]

It's often said (and this has been repeated here) that we cannot have a hard border with Ireland because of the Good Friday Agreement (Belfast Agreement). Obviously, this would only apply to goods anyway because the UK and Ireland have a Common Travel Area which predates the EU and its predecessors, but can someone point out to me which part of the GFA it would breach?

You can get a copy of the GFA here www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/136652/agreement.pdf and its only 35 pages long so it won't take long to read. Remainers will obviously be very keen to show me.

[Isthisafreename]

@GrouchoMrx - There are so many things that can go wrong for someone in her position that it is mind-boggling that she would vote for Brexit.

Plus at the time of the referendum, there was plenty of talk in Ireland about how brexit would have a seriously negative effect on the Irish economy. She could not have been unaware of that.

Lovely attitude for someone who is availing of all the benefits of living here! If you posted about a guest like that on mn you'd be told to kick them out.

[RuggerHug]

whispers it's a He not a she.

[Isthisafreename]

@RuggerHug - whispers it's a He not a she.

Ok. He's a crap guest then . And the only reason he hadn't heard about NI at the time was because he wasn't listening.

[RuggerHug]

isthisafreename exactly!! He tried to say that one night and I've never heard a louder chorus through gritted teeth explaining that we had all been saying it😁

[Outsomnia]

Oh Dear.

Whatever happens, the US Congress will rule on any Trade Deals anyway with the GFA in mind too, they have said it already.

That is just the US, so No Deal Brexit will not happen.

Do not forget that the potential incumbents for Tory Leadership are not looking for our votes, just those 200k. That's an easy gig really.

[Isthisafreename]

@RuggerHug - He tried to say that one night and I've never heard a louder chorus through gritted teeth explaining that we had all been saying it😁

I assume he's married to an Irish woman if his kids are Irish? I would find it very hard to respect a man that would do that to his family.

[LifeContinues]

I have read the GFA and there is no specific reference to a Hard Border or that a Hard Border is prohibited, but other comments about;

Self determination

Mutual agreement between North and South

If North and South wish to reunite they are free to do so

Plus there has been no hard Border for many years sets a precedent.

A United Ireland seems to be the best option taking into account the majority in NI voted to remain in the EU, but I am not from Ireland.
Those who live there and have first hand experience might have a different view.

[bellinisurge]

"A United Ireland seems to be the best option taking into account the majority in NI voted to remain in the EU, but I am not from Ireland.
Those who live there and have first hand experience might have a different view."
You think? 😂😂😂😂

[RuggerHug]

Isthisafreename that is the general consensus from everyone who knows.

[bellinisurge]

@LifeContinues , you claim to have worked at a power station in NI in the early 2000s. Quite why you didn't realise the implications for the border is beyond me.
What are the implications for the NI power grid if all legal agreements are flushed down the toilet with No Deal. Where does NI get its power supply from? Is it mainland UK?

[GrouchoMrx]

RuggerHug Sun 07-Jul-19 22:16:20
whispers it's a He not a she.

Indeed, the sense of automatic entitlement of the average Englishman should never be underestimated.

No doubt, he will blame 'the Irish' if he loses privileges as a result of Brexit.

[InTheHeatofLisbon]

A United Ireland seems to be the best option taking into account the majority in NI voted to remain in the EU, but I am not from Ireland.
Those who live there and have first hand experience might have a different view.

That's the point isn't it? That it isn't up to Britain or the UK government what comes next.

It was clearly and unequivocally stated in the GFA that the people of Ireland and Northern Ireland have the right to choose.

And yet, they're being told, by the UK, AGAIN what needs to happen next.

Can people seriously, honestly not see why this is such a contentious issue?

A country they commandeered, caused a civil war costing thousands of lives, hurting so many people, all of a sudden becomes an irrelevance because it's getting in the way of what the British government wants.

Because up until Brexit I've never heard a single British person mention reunification. Not one.

But now because it's expedient it's ok?

It fucking isn't.

It is not for the English, Scots or Welsh to tell the Irish and Northern Irish people what comes next.

[Mistigri]

And yet, they're being told, by the UK, AGAIN what needs to happen next.

It's just the galloping hypocrisy of it that gets me: harping on about "sovereignty" while expecting your neighbouring sovereign state to do what they are jolly well told.

[LifeContinues]

But now because it's expedient it's ok?

If it gives the people in NI what they want, which is to remain in the EU, and what people in ROI and NI want, which is an united Ireland based on what other posters have said, does it make any difference how or when it comes about?

I would be just as happy to win the lottery next year as opposed to this year.

[LifeContinues]

It's just the galloping hypocrisy of it that gets me: harping on about "sovereignty" while expecting your neighbouring sovereign state to do what they are jolly well told

GFA was made 10 April 1998. Since then both North and South have had the right to choose whether or not they want to reunite, but for reasons, which I am sure someone wants to explain, it does not even seem to be on the cards?

[bellinisurge]

🐝

[InTheHeatofLisbon]

Galloping hypocrisy indeed, with a large dose of arrogance too.

The bit that gets me the most is the genuine surprise that they haven't just rolled over and done as they're told.

People are actually taken by surprise, that people don't want to compromise peace to suit the British government.

The arrogance of that is utterly staggering.

Nobody seems to realise that if the Brits hadn't expected the Irish to fall in line and taken the attitude they have in the first place, literally none of it would have happened!

[JoxerGoesToStuttgart]

It's often said (and this has been repeated here) that we cannot have a hard border with Ireland because of the Good Friday Agreement

It’s not “we” that would have the border, is it? It wouldn’t impact the “we” you talk about at all. It would be NI that would have the hard border with Ireland. Something NI has experienced and decided wasn’t at all a pleasant thing. The people of NI and the people of RoI don’t want a hard border.

[RuggerHug]

LifeContinues Because simply put, there was no need. You could be Irish or British or both. There was no violence, no border so working/education/everything in everyday life was easy as anything. Normality and happiness for everyone there was happening in a way that hadn't been there before. There was no need to change, until English Brexit voters decided to.

[InTheHeatofLisbon]

The people of NI and the people of RoI don’t want a hard border.

That's really all that matters tbh. We can argue over and over, but the fact it it's not about Scotland, Wales or England.

It is not for mainland Britain to make that decision, and the sooner people (and in particular politicians) wrap their heads around the truth, the better.

It's not their mess, they never voted for it, and I don't see why their significant vote (in 1998) should be overturned at the behest of English and Welsh leave voters who didn't give a minute's consideration to them.

It's for England and Wales to sort out. Nobody else.

[bellinisurge]

I wonder what new username our Far East poster will use for their next bet.

[1tisILeClerc]

{That's the point isn't it? That it isn't up to Britain or the UK government what comes next. }

Taking a wider view, Theresa activating A50 immediately signed away most of the UK's ability to do 'deals' and take control of anything. The irony being she was saying Brexit takes back control.
In the same way that when you get home and shut the front door, you are in 'control' of your house.
Had there been a plan in place, negotiations with the EU which will HAVE to happen, could have started off on a mutual basis and achieved the 'good deal' that the leave campaign had always promised. Of course the 'good deal' would never be as good as EU members get, but then they started off by sending Davies and contemplating to throw the UK's weight about. Shame they forgot that the British Empire evaporated many decades ago.
They of course deliberately messed up on the Irish border, as it is not in the UK's gift to unilaterally decide what happens. Even the border with Gibraltar/Spain needs consideration, although it is somewhat less contentious than Ireland. A 'fudge' involving money and some wrangling will probably sort that out.

[JoxerGoesToStuttgart]

A 'fudge' involving money and some wrangling will probably sort that out.

Which is exactly what they relied on happening with NI/ROI oops!

[Isthisafreename]

@LifeContinues - If it gives the people in NI what they want, which is to remain in the EU, and what people in ROI and NI want, which is an united Ireland based on what other posters have said, does it make any difference how or when it comes about?

A significant number in NI do not want a united Ireland. A united Ireland at this stage would be likely to result in a reignition of loyalist violence.

A united Ireland needs to have significant support, North and South. It needs to be a gradual, carefully negotiated process, not a big-bang reunification just because it's convenient to the UK.

[1tisILeClerc]

{Which is exactly what they relied on happening with NI/ROI oops!}

The EU have already considered that some versions of a 'solution' to the Irish border, if it involves just money, rather than the tense political aspect would be prepared to consider loss of tax revenue from the goods that travel over the border, as in reality the amount involved is relatively small.