Good Friday Agreement

[CatherineTheLate]

It's often said (and this has been repeated here) that we cannot have a hard border with Ireland because of the Good Friday Agreement (Belfast Agreement). Obviously, this would only apply to goods anyway because the UK and Ireland have a Common Travel Area which predates the EU and its predecessors, but can someone point out to me which part of the GFA it would breach?

You can get a copy of the GFA here www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/136652/agreement.pdf and its only 35 pages long so it won't take long to read. Remainers will obviously be very keen to show me.

[bellinisurge]

Perhaps some Brexiteer loons have claimed CTA is the solution. Just the kind of dozy fuckery they would come out with.

[Isthisafreename]

@lljkk - Conclusion: CTA does not preclude a hard border in northern Ireland.

I don't understand your point? Nobody has claimed the CTA precludes a hard border. However, the GFA does as a hard border means the cross-border co-operative measures that have been implemented as part of the GFA would not be possible.

[bellinisurge]

"Conclusion: CTA does not preclude a hard border in northern Ireland."
Bloody obviously.

[lljkk]

I don't pretend to understand much about Irish border.

Apparently this is what the border looked like in 1972.

1972 is before UK or Ireland were in EU yet during the "common travel area" era (1952-1997+).

Somehow, the common travel area status didn't stop a very hard border from being in place a lot of the time.

Conclusion: CTA does not preclude a hard border in northern Ireland.

[BackInTime]

Don't you realise that the people who voted Remain in NI are people who wanted the status quo. Not all nationalists. Bloody hell. Do you really not know this?

I agree, think what many people fail to understand is that the majority of people in NI and the ROI are perfectly happy with the status quo. They seem to think that the ROI has some ulterior motive of trying to punish Britain for the past by scuppering Brexit because ultimately they want reunification.

Let's get this clear, people in NI & ROI prioritise the status quo and peace and prosperity above all else. They have lived through years of trauma and violence and absolutely do not want to do anything that risks a return to this.

The ROI has recently come through a pretty tough recession and in such a small country everyone was affected by this and it is very much in the forefront of people's minds. People lost homes, jobs businesses and now they are having to face the possibility of a further recession due to Brexit. People there are watching in total horror at the idea that the a future PM is actively campaigning to throw the economy off a cliff with a no deal Brexit and that he has the support of lots of people who are actually calling for this to happen.

[MockerstheFeManist]

Starting to suspect the DUP's cunning plan is to have a new border poll on the terms of the previous one, leaving us with an Even-More-Northern Ireland of Antrim, Down and Co. Londonderry minus the Bogside.

Then only necessary to buy that wall off the Germans and put it round West Belfast.

Behold the Orange Free State.

[HalloumiGus]

Catherine other people have been good enough to explain things to you. They're better people than me. I'd have just told you that you're a right goady cunt.

[SegregateMumBev]

TheEmirie - the DUP all the shots with their 10 seats because of the confidence and supply agreement, which was necessary after May called a General Election and lost her overall majority. ie the governement needs them to support it, so therefore they can make outrageous demands.

(I'm in NI by the way and know many unionist and republican voters who voted remain, precisely because they could see how advantageous the status quo is)

[jasjas1973]

A border in the sea and having NI as a special economic zone seems like the only way forward. However there is absolutely no chance that the DUP will accept this

Never quite understood this argument - the SNP will be enraged by NI getting this advantage, so might other regions in the UK that lose jobs to NI.
It also effectively breaks up the UK.

But as i've said before, Hunt and BJ will be forced to face reality and not just the tory membership.

Maybe another vote will happen? no-deal or a GE seem to be even worse options - for the new PM.

[Isthisafreename]

@TheEmpireNoMore - Exactly and the majority in NI that voted to remain in EU get what they want.

Not quite........

[bellinisurge]

Please tell me @TheEmpireNoMore is a wind up merchant. Nobody making a comment on NI could be this ignorant.

[bellinisurge]

Don't you realise that the people who voted Remain in NI are people who wanted the status quo. Not all nationalists. Bloody hell. Do you really not know this?

[TheEmpireNoMore]

no deal and a hard border will, more than likely, speed up a border poll leading to a united Ireland

Exactly and the majority in NI that voted to remain in EU get what they want.

[bellinisurge]

Please tell me , @TheEmpireNoMore , that you knew this already.

[bellinisurge]

For balance, I despise Sinn Fein too.

[bellinisurge]

"Seems like DUP want a no deal?" You think?
Obviously they do. It destroys GFA which they hated. It causes mayhem which they want to exercise control over. They are tossers.
NI voted Remain for a reason. Which, given the demographic, tells me Nationalists and Unionists supported Remain.

[Isthisafreename]

@TheEmpireNoMore - Seems like DUP want a no deal?

The DUP oppose the GFA. No deal breaks the GFA. However, the irony, which they seem incapable of seeing, is that no deal and a hard border will, more than likely, speed up a border poll leading to a united Ireland.

[InTheHeatofLisbon]

Borders in the sea are still borders.

We can debate/suggest/argue until we're blue in the face, the fact is that changing the EU membership of the UK does affect the GFA. It was known before the vote, and it was known afterwards.

What it wasn't, was considered sensibly by anyone in the Leave campaign or who voted to Leave.

It was brushed off as threats from the IRA whenever anyone dared suggest that the GFA (and therefore the ceasefire) was being compromised by the stupidity of the government.

Because it's all very well us sitting in our cosy homes bleating about war. The fact is that it isn't us who'll have to live with it again, and our lives won't be devastated by it.

But there are many who will be, and up until now they've been an afterthought.

For the thousandth time, it's up to the government to be honest and say there can be no brexit without ripping up the GFA therefore there can be no brexit.

[TheEmpireNoMore]

However there is absolutely no chance that the DUP will accept this

How can they call the shots when they have only 10 seats in Parliament? Seems like DUP want a no deal?

[bellinisurge]

My only argument for the DUP is that this is the most likely way to keep NI out of ROI. Which the eventual demographic change will make inevitable. If NI is a prosperous entity in this format (re)unification won't be as attractive. And they get to still be big fish in a little bowl.

[1tisILeClerc]

{A border in the sea and having NI as a special economic zone seems like the only way forward.}

I believe this is the EU preferred situation (if the UK decides to crash out with no deal), and it would either work or could be made to work for the WTO requirement of a border for checking goods. Of course many goods are currently checked when travelling from NI to the rUK to prevent the spread of disease. I am not sure if these checks are carried out when they travel from NI to Ireland.

[BackInTime]

A border in the sea and having NI as a special economic zone seems like the only way forward. However there is absolutely no chance that the DUP will accept this.

[HerSymphonyAndSong]

I love how this is presented as a remainers’ problem when all the red lines, hard border requirements, backstops and arguments against backstops etc have been created by leavers. The fact that we haven’t left yet is entirely down to leavers not being able to decide what leave means. The ball is in leavers’ court. Crack on

[1tisILeClerc]

Not wishing to get too deeply embroiled in this but I think the word 'trick' was not perhaps the best and has the risk of meaning different things to different people.
The GFA took 10 years of very hard negotiations from a lot of world experts to be hammered out. This gave the largest number of citizens from all viewpoints most of what they wanted. Since some of the aspects are polar opposites of course there will be difference of opinion. Everyone gained some things, and everyone lost other things, that is the way of negotiation.
There are 'regional differences' between Wales, Scotland, NI and England already.
What is certain is that before long one 'group' will have to give way unless the UK actually revokes. The main worry is what those that see themselves as 'losing' chose to do about it.

[jasjas1973]

NI is part of the UK, its not a paper exercise!

Hunt and Johnson will find, as May did, that leaving the EU will be extremely problematic, their recent statements are to get elected, once in power, they will change their ideas, just as she did.

Remember "Brexit means brexit and we will make a success of it" or "We are leaving on 29/3 come what may"

How many times did she publicly repeat this? over 100 times.