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Brexit

Good Friday Agreement

155 replies

CatherineTheLate · 06/07/2019 23:59

It's often said (and this has been repeated here) that we cannot have a hard border with Ireland because of the Good Friday Agreement (Belfast Agreement). Obviously, this would only apply to goods anyway because the UK and Ireland have a Common Travel Area which predates the EU and its predecessors, but can someone point out to me which part of the GFA it would breach?

You can get a copy of the GFA here www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/136652/agreement.pdf and its only 35 pages long so it won't take long to read. Remainers will obviously be very keen to show me.

OP posts:
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LifeContinues · 08/07/2019 11:17

would be prepared to consider loss of tax revenue from the goods that travel over the border, as in reality the amount involved is relatively small

So why all the noise about a hard border?

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bellinisurge · 08/07/2019 11:23

Deliberate attempts to misunderstand the situation. Again.🐝

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1tisILeClerc · 08/07/2019 11:29

{So why all the noise about a hard border?}

Because it is not about the money, particularly if you are considering the goods that travel between NI and Ireland. As far as I am aware that is mostly agricultural products. It is the issue of goods from rUK needing to be checked before entering or departing the EU.
It is obvious that LifeContinues is just an argumentative twat with no attempt being made to think of any workable solutions.

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LifeContinues · 08/07/2019 11:33

If loss of revenue to the EU from goods going across the North South border is small why do they care? Why was the border even mentioned in the WA at all?

Every time the Irish border subject is raised I become more convinced it is nothing more than an attempt to thwart Brexit.

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RuggerHug · 08/07/2019 11:34

LifeContinues just read the previous responses, think about them and what the words mean. Then if you have further questions feel free to ask.

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Isthisafreename · 08/07/2019 11:45

@LifeContinues - Every time the Irish border subject is raised I become more convinced it is nothing more than an attempt to thwart Brexit.

I can only assume this is because you are either not actually reading any of the posts, you are being deliberately obtuse, or you speak a very different version of English to the rest of us.

It has been clearly explained. Try reading.

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LifeContinues · 08/07/2019 11:48

no attempt being made to think of any workable solutions

As Wales and England voted majority to leave lets have a customs area on the coast of Wales. Something tells me that it is the remain supporters who do not want a solution in the hope that it will thwart Brexit.

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bellinisurge · 08/07/2019 11:52

More irritating buzzing and no attempt to understand simple explanation.

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Isthisafreename · 08/07/2019 11:52

@LifeContinues - As Wales and England voted majority to leave lets have a customs area on the coast of Wales. Something tells me that it is the remain supporters who do not want a solution in the hope that it will thwart Brexit.

And how does that comply with the red line of the UK being treated as a single entity?

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1tisILeClerc · 08/07/2019 12:02

{And how does that comply with the red line of the UK being treated as a single entity?}

Had the red lines presented (but not necessarily written by) Theresa, been discussed and negotiated by the assembly in Wales, the Scots and Stormont?

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Peregrina · 08/07/2019 12:08

As Wales and England voted majority to leave lets have a customs area on the coast of Wales.

The DUP ruled that out, and May was dependent on the DUP to shore up her Government, remember?

Otherwise, with Customs posts etc. this might bring some decent quality work to areas without much industry.

And if May had been able to stick it to Labour and get her big majority, NI would have gone under the bus, of whatever colour.

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LifeContinues · 08/07/2019 12:22

And if May had been able to stick it to Labour and get her big majority, NI would have gone under the bus, of whatever colour

Disagree. The GFA was in place since 1998 before Brexit was ever a subject.

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bellinisurge · 08/07/2019 12:28

Yet more wilful refusal to understand the issue.

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DuchessDumbarton · 08/07/2019 12:38

bellini you're doing your best, but your attempts are being ignored Grin

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bellinisurge · 08/07/2019 12:44

[shrug]

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Bearbehind · 08/07/2019 13:20

Yet more wilful refusal to understand the issue.

bellini step away from the wind up merchant! 😂

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SonEtLumiere · 08/07/2019 16:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RuggerHug · 09/07/2019 20:08

Tried to start a new topic with thus but won't work.



Anyone else's heart sink seeing this? I know we've been preparing for no deal for longer than over the sea it seems but seeing the following in black and white really made my stomach drop. Especially on a day we found out abortion and same sex marriage are finally on the way for NI.

“The consequences of a no deal Brexit for the political process in Northern Ireland could be very damaging. A no deal Brexit risks significantly undermining wider community relations and political stability in Northern Ireland with potential related security concerns.


“If the Institutions are not in place at the time of a no deal Brexit, there is a risk that the UK Government might initiate a move to Direct Rule in Northern Ireland as a response to managing the shift to new post-Brexit arrangements in the timeframe involved,” it says.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/no-deal-brexit-will-see-checks-on-uk-imports-but-not-at-border-says-goverment-1.3951392%3fmode=amp

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blubberyboo · 12/07/2019 02:03

Just read the thread and feel like crying at the ignorance of the OP and @lifecontinues.
You really don’t give a shit about your countrymen in NI do you? Nor have you bothered to educate yourselves about NI history and current affairs and it’s people. Incidentally a majority of whom still are unionist towards the UK. So basically NI is made up of almost half British and half Irish identities... so you can’t just give them the flick back to Dublin cos it suits your cause now.
OP asked for a quote from the GFA:

“SECURITY

  1. The participants note that the development of a peaceful environment on the basis of this agreement can and should mean a normalisation of security arrangements and practices.
  2. The British Government will make progress towards the objective of as early a return as possible to normal security arrangements in Northern Ireland, consistent with the level of threat and with a published overall strategy, dealing with:

(i) the reduction of the numbers and role of the Armed Forces deployed in Northern Ireland to levels compatible with a normal peaceful society;
(ii) the removal of security installations;
(iii) the removal of emergency powers in Northern Ireland; and
(iv) other measures appropriate to and compatible with a normal peaceful society.
  1. The Secretary of State will consult regularly on progress, and the

response to any continuing paramilitary activity, with the Irish Government and the political parties, as appropriate.
  1. The British Government will continue its consultation on firearms regulation and control on the basis of the document published on 2 April 1998.
  2. The Irish Government will initiate a wide-ranging review of the Offences Against the State Acts 1939-85 with a view to both reform and dispensing with those elements no longer required as circumstances permit.”


All of this right above... do you see it??? It means NO HARD BORDER. Just to spell it out to those ignorant folks who can’t be bothered to read any recent history when there is a wealth available online. The common travel area existed before the troubles and yet the army still set up checkpoints during the troubles ( therefore a border). Those checkpoints inflamed relations further. The Uk and Roi entered EU at same time so they have never separately had one in EU regulations and the other not.

CUSTOMS OFFICIALS would need protection from the British army all along the very detailed and intricate border. OP @CatherineTheLate & @LifeContinues are both welcome to apply for those customs jobs when they get advertised as sure as shit nobody in NI would want to work there for fear of being turned into a human bomb ...or having their family shot...and don’t sprout any rubbish about technology as we all know it doesn’t exist.

Another quote from the GFA:
(v) affirm that whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland, the power of the sovereign government with jurisdiction there shall be exercised with rigorous impartiality on behalf of all the people in the diversity of their identities and traditions and shall be founded on the principles of full respect for, and equality of, civil, political, social and cultural rights, of freedom from discrimination for all citizens, and of parity of esteem and of just and equal treatment for the identity, ethos, and aspirations of both communities;
(vi) recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.

This basically means ( and I voted for this agreement in 98) that if you identify as Irish you can freely live as Irish as best you can in a region attached to UK. Now think about it... if you work or live along the invisible border .. or use healthcare and schools on either side... (or hell just want to nip to your auntie in Donegal for a day trip) and that border suddenly has checkpoints or customs stops ...it’s not really living freely and having parity of esteem and having your cultural and social rights protected Now is it? Think about it and put it in the context of the PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY LIVE THERE for goodness sake. It is not equal treatment of their Irish identity. Having a free border is what the GFA was marketed on to those of us that voted for it.

And another quote:

(iii) acknowledge that while a substantial section of the people in Northern Ireland share the legitimate wish of a majority of the people of the island of Ireland for a united Ireland, the present wish of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland, freely exercised and legitimate, is to maintain the Union and, accordingly, that Northern Ireland’s status as part of the United Kingdom reflects and relies upon that wish; and that it would be wrong to make any change in the status of Northern Ireland save with the consent of a majority of its people;”

This part means the majority currently wish to remain in UK and only the people of NI can consent to change this... not the English or welsh so keep your opinions about a united ireland to yourselves. It also means NI is a full part of the UK which is why you can’t then place your border in the Irish Sea ( as this infringes on the rights of the unionist people of NI to freely move and be equally part of the UK...not all unionists support DUP incidentally. Other unionist parties are available)

Now I get it this is all a huge 3 year inconvenience to Brexiteers but really i’d love to hear your suggestions as to how you can proceed without breaching at least one thing above. Be smarter and realise the GFA is not about what it says word for word...but what it means to peoples lives!
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bellinisurge · 12/07/2019 07:51

@blubberyboo those posters you mentioned demonstrably know fuck all and one of them may be a regular in different guises from the Far East.

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TheEmpireNoMore · 12/07/2019 08:03

So what suggestions do those posters who are from Ireland, NI or ROI or citizens who now live somewhere else, have to solve the problem?

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Jason118 · 12/07/2019 08:06

They can't have any because there are none.

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1tisILeClerc · 12/07/2019 08:18

It is for the UK government to find a solution. They have escalated a pretty evenly balanced referendum result into destruction of the UK.
A pragmatic government would have said that as the result was so close it needed further examination and work to decide what people really want, but that has not happened.

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TheEmpireNoMore · 12/07/2019 08:58

They can't have any because there are none

If that's the case then is No Deal a certainty?

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