Westministenders: Hustings and Humilation

[RedToothBrush]

Round 1 has passed.
Boris is winning. But these are the Tories. Surprises might yet happen.

But the chances are the lying buffon is full speed ahead to be the next PM. As long as he manages to keep his mouth shut.

Unfortunately being Prime Minister involves talking. This might prove to be something that bursts the BorisMania rather rapidly.

A GE is still very much on the cards.

And we might face the Constitutional and undemocratic shutting down of parliament to satisfy the Tory Faithless.

Meanwhile the EU couldn't give less shits. They just think we are wasting the time we were granted in good faith.

31st October beckons with No Deal.

It's very focused on fishing. I expect it sees this as the weak link in Scotland.

RTB you are making the Right's case against the "identity politics" of the Left very effectively. Your comment is exactly what Cleverly and Kwarteng in particular would say.

thethethe Gove is reckoned to have already rolled over on fishing to appease the French. This is why I think he has so little Scottish Tory MP support despite being Scottish. Ironically it is the SNP who are picking a fight with the Irish atm over fishing rights.

From Wiki/google search:
{Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy (EFDD or EFD²) is a Eurosceptic political group in the European Parliament. ... This group is opposed to European integration. Twenty-four out of its 47 MEPs were from the United Kingdom, representing the UK Independence Party.
European parties‎: ‎Alliance for Direct Democracy ...
Political position‎: ‎Right-wing to far-right}

Founded by Farage in 2014.

howabout, is there a problem with identity politics on BOTH the left and right?

I think there is.

It doesn't encourage debate and analysis of problems at their root.

We are more than our identity.

I absolutely agree RTB. In that context the Scottish Brexit Party MEP is an LGBT, BME, Englishman married to a Scot - doesn't quite match the Brexit Party caricature portrayed on these threads.

For me, the fight to reverse the growing wealth gap is about economic right / left policies

there are plenty of gay & trans men supporting the right and even the far right & fascist fringe

The Leave campaign and Brexit have ben dominated by rightwing leaders whose aims are tax cuts and reducing workers rights further

i.e. increasing the wealth gap

We are more than our identity.

And our identity is more than our origins.

The term "sassinachsplaining." avoids addressing the far greater say that small countries have in the EU compared to the UK

The difference in power over Brexit between Ireland and Scotland is particularly obvious

Has anyone posted this? Survey of conservative party members that shows how Brexit has become so ingrained as an ideology that it trumps pretty much everything else.

The Tory membership would be prepared to lose Scotland, N Ireland and see their own party destroyed rather than lose Brexit. The only thing more important than Brexit is (hilariously) not letting Corbyn be PM.

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/06/18/most-conservative-members-would-see-party-destroye

If Labour lost so many Scottish seats because of being too rightwing & Remainy, then why vote SNP in such oare numbers ?

Why not return to Labour now after 3-4 years of Corbyn ?

Because Scottish voters think it is being under Westminster that is the fundamental problem ?
And Brexit would just make it worse ?

It's the "would see their own party destroyed" that really impresses me

We know most Tories only care about England and cba with Scotland at least,
especially since the Tory party seems doomed in perpetuity to only a small minority of Scottish seats

Maybe they want the Faragists to replace the Tories

Yes Loon it is a very small sample of mainly older southern leave Tory party members but they are the people choosing our next PM !

Makes me think Boris can pretty much say or do anything as long as he continues to promise he will not rule out no deal.

A rod for his own back.

LeClerc, that wiki article on EFDD makes interesting reading - they're not exactly a harmonious bunch, are they? Constant fallings out and defecting to other parties / groups.

I presume from the article that Marine Le Pen's lot sit with a different far right group in the European Parliament, as they're not mentioned?

The article also referred to one of our former Yorkshire MEPs, Amjad Bashir, who was elected in 2014 as a UKIP MEP but later defected to the Tories. Apparently that was because of alleged financial fraud, which seemed to be a recurring theme with the UKIP lot.

What the old duffers seem to have failed to grasp is that Uk could split economy crash and own party be destroyed quite possibly makes the thing they dread the most a Corbyn Government more likely?

Not all SNP voters want Independence. A significant proportion of SNP voters are pro Brexit. Lots of SNP voters hate Tory / Labour and/or LibDem more than they hate SNP, who, they judge, at least run the country half competently. Even I quite liked Angus Robertson at PMQs but there are plenty of SNP voters who cringe every time Blackford stands up. The SNP block presence guarantees Scotland is heard in Westminster even if they often talk a load of mince. That said wee Mhairi always talks sense (Universal credit and WASPI women campaigning) and having been highly critical of Joanna she is now growing on me (Art 50 Revoke case and ability to outbore Sir Keir being highpoints)

All a bit off topic but recommend The Bonnie Prince and Darren Loki McGarvey on twitter for the nuanced Scottish perspective - bit more sweary and cynical than me but ...

I don't think Labour's Brexit position makes much difference to Scottish Labour Remain voters. However in the same way that not all SNP voters support Independence a lot of pre Indyref Labour voters were pro-Indy. Fence sitting followed by coattailing on the Tory Unionist campaign cost them enough votes to swing the tactical vote and almost all seats. Previous Tory tactical SNP voters joined by Unionist Labour led to the 2017 Tory resurgence.

To illustrate the above the SNP vote share was 20% in 2010, 50% in 2015 and back down to 37% in 2017.

Yes, exactly, basilpots.

iirc it was pretty's DS who said voting Leave increases the chances of Scottish Indie
So some SNP Leavers may be like him

Tom Newton Dunn@tnewtondunn

Which Tory contenders will get chopped tonight?
Up to 3:

• Javid looked likeliest to go overnight, but I'm told he's now "very close" to hitting 33.

One Tory MP even rang him straight after his strong @BBCr4today^ interview to commit.^
He was buying coffee in Pret at the time < does that lose the vote again ? >
....

• Team Raab are confident he has the 33, "if they all do what they say", < >

but they don't expect to survive the 3rd ballot on Weds.

• Stewart was on a firm 28 last night, and still needs some hopefuls to fully commit this afternoon

Musing on Michael Gove.

I think he prides himself most on being intelligent and knowledgeable. He knows the shit show Brexit will be.

He ideologically likes the idea of leaving he EU despite this.

So he's constantly having arguments in his head. Should he go for the right wing ideology? Or should he make sure everyone knows he's smart enough to be fully cognisant of what will happen after leaving?

Disclaimer:- this "analysis" is likely all hogwash. I've no idea what actually goes on in Gove's head. Thank fuck!

LoonvanBoon
I haven't read much of what was available there but the fact that Farage set up his 'disruptive party' in 2014 to me puts a different slant on much of the Brexit shenanigans because it is well before Muppet Cameron came up with a referendum.
The activities of Farage need looking at over the last 20 years probably, maybe even longer ago than that. It is not a 'flash in the pan' operation, although I would doubt he is the real 'mastermind'.
To be paid handsomely to flirt on the edge of respectability and talk bollocks is a pretty ideal 'job' as unless you overdo it and get arrested you can do what the hell you like.
There was a 'theory' going back to the early 1990s about Russia wanting to destabilise the EU for it's own ends, and a chance for people like gold traders to be 'in the mix' of disruption.

It's more that ds is against Revoke as he sees it as bringing about Scottish Independence quicker.

He's young and impatient - so doesn't care about the damage that Brexit would do to FUKD. Indeed, he sees the clusterfuck as accelerating the case for independence and Scotland within Europe (as in "the EU").

When Brexit is only in your head it works fine it’s when it meets reality the problems start. Tobee

Farage is in the perfect position at the moment can cheer on from the sidelines promising pretty much anything and never actually be held directly to account as he is not the one tasked with delivering Brexit.

Had an argument yesterday with ds about whether JRM would ever want to be PM. He thinks he's surprisingly young, so yes.

My opinion is that he's much too happy to able to snipe from the snidelines (my deliberate malapropism), so I'm not sure he would even ever want to be in Cabinet and therefore bound by Cabinet responsibility.