Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Tory Natural Selection

968 replies

RedToothBrush · 08/06/2019 13:09

Here we go again...

OP posts:
Thread gallery
32
Tanith · 13/06/2019 18:45

Again, I will post the link to past Question Time panels to refute the claim of anti-Brexit bias:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Question_Time_episodes

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 13/06/2019 19:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wheresmymojo · 13/06/2019 19:11

Random question....

I was just a child when Thatcher was in Government but I'm very keen to learn more about different economic theories (I.e. how were things run prior and during Thatcher) and more about Thatcherite policies, etc.

Does anyone have any book recommendations either on Thatcherism or on various types of economic policies/theories that Governments have or can pursue?

bellinisurge · 13/06/2019 19:14

There is a BBC series just now on Thatcher which, having lived through it as a teenager and young adult, I would say is not too far off. Start there.

MockerstheFeManist · 13/06/2019 19:14

wheresmymojo

Google John Maynard Keynes and Milton Firedman (Moneterism)

Then get Will Hutton's "The State We're In" from the library or for a penny off Amazon:

www.amazon.co.uk/State-Were-Revised-Britain-Overcome/dp/0099366819?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

wheresmymojo · 13/06/2019 19:26

I'm watching the series...about half way through episode 2. It's giving me a decent idea but I've only ever lived in a Thatcher/post-Thatcher world.

I know people talk about the 70s being dire, "if you'd been alive in the 70s you'd run a mile from Labour", etc but I don't have any background to understand what it was like and why. I know Thatcher was a huge revolution but I don't know from what IYSWIM.

wheresmymojo · 13/06/2019 19:26

Thanks Mockers....will follow up on your suggestions!

jasjas1973 · 13/06/2019 19:31

The tripling of oil prices by OPEC wrecked Labour's plans in the 70s, by the time MT came along N.Sea oil was on tap...which she squandered.

I'd like to see her dug up and her head on a pike..... i'm sure there is historical precedent for that Lol

Sostenueto · 13/06/2019 19:31

Since the opposition lost the vote to stop a no deal brexit I feel all hope is gone now and we are heading for a no deal brexit in October.Sad

bellinisurge · 13/06/2019 19:37

@wheresmymojo , google "Winter of Discontent " - the perception of union power was very negative. Google "Clause Four".
Also google the magnificent "Barbara Castle" and "In Place of Strife". She was the best Prime Minister we never had.

rosie39forever · 13/06/2019 19:40

I think no deal is inevitable although I hope and prey for revoke, I don't think any leader or potential leader of any party will be brave enough to revoke or even another referendum. If we leave we're totally fucked and if we don't leave Farage and his company of deranged idiots will gain loads of seats in the next election so we'd be even more fucked.

bellinisurge · 13/06/2019 19:44

I don't think No Deal is inevitable. Yet. There was never going to be success for a Labour motion while the Tory leadership election was going on.
Sadly, as we have seen from the past few months, important blockers don't happen until we are down to the wire.

frumpety · 13/06/2019 19:45

I think Boris will become next PM , having the worst PM in history will mean the EU will grant one further extension ( February would be my guess) out of sympathy, Boris will get bored of it all after about 10 minutes and revoke Art 50. Brexiteers will be furious, but Boris will go down in history as the PM who fixed Brexit and saved the UK.

Sostenueto · 13/06/2019 19:49

Quite honestly it is all so farcical, Brexit, the Tory leadership fiasco where not one of the potential candidates is Priminister material, that I sometimes wonder if I'm in some sort of comic nightmare except it really isn't funny Sad

LonelyTiredandLow · 13/06/2019 19:50

Catching up.
I also think we are on for no deal. Realistically no one is going to revoke (unless Boris does some weird...no, that's too far even for him I feel) and no one has time or any options to put together anything new - EU won't renegotiate WA and no one is putting that through again on their watch. So, only option is No Deal by choice or accidental No Deal.

I was thinking we could play a game of "What will Boris do when in power?"

  1. No Deal
  2. Declare a national Brexit Day
  3. Waste millions/billions (honestly doesn't seem to matter to MP's atm so why PM?) on a national circus and some bread for the masses
  4. Tell the world we are having the time of our lives repeatedly
  5. Cheat on the new g.f (am amazed he still has the same one)
  6. Fall off something/get stuck on something else that moves/be milkshaked in a public place

Any other ideas?

Grumpyyetgorgeous · 13/06/2019 19:51
  1. Break the country permanently.
rosie39forever · 13/06/2019 20:03

If you'd have told me 5 years ago that in 2019 the Trump and Boris would be the leaders of the free world I'd have fallen off my chair laughing, so I suppose anything is possible blur with bojo and the ERG pulling his strings I think only one outcome is likely.

LonelyTiredandLow · 13/06/2019 20:04

Grumpy I think that's Brexit, not any PM to be fair.
He will undoubtedly balls it up more than most would.

LonelyTiredandLow · 13/06/2019 20:07

I can't even think of a scandal that would bring him down tbh (Boris).
I'm sure Clifford had dirt on him, but like Trump, these days populist racist misogynist bigots seem to be Teflon coated.

LonelyTiredandLow · 13/06/2019 20:12

Must try again with Good Omens. I loved the book but couldn't get Lovejoy out of my head!

BigChocFrenzy · 13/06/2019 20:14

I lived through the 70s and 80s , Mojo (born mid-50s)

As jas said, it was the tripling of oil prices by OPEC after the Yom Kippur War that mainly caused Labour's downfall:

oil prices fed into the economy, goods prices rose because of higher transport costs, inflation rose to 20-25%, workers went on strike to protect their living standards, some businesses could no longer make a profit

The previous Tory govt - until 1974 - had left the economy in a dreadful state, with a 3-day week, soiralling inflation,
so Labour inherited a chronically weak economy

Mrs Thatcher squandered North Sea / Scottish Oil

She sold off many nationalised industries and institutions - iirc it was a former Tory PM Harold McMillan who called it "selling off the family silver"

She stopped supporting industy through this tough period, deliberately de-industrialising in particular the North of England, in order to try to force a services economy instead of more secure, better paid manufacturing jobs

She set out to smash the trade unions, with new laws to remove the main defence that ordinary workers have against employers, their main weapon to gain higher wages

She rewarded Tory voters with giveaways, especially selling off shares well below market value, so speculators could sell for instant windfalls

She starved the NHS of funds - I had to pay for my late mum to have foot, knee and eye ops, or she would have waited over 2 years

And of course MrsT sold off council housing, which caused the misery of spiralling prices and rent

She started the demonising of people on benefits

She changed the country from one that supported the welfare state to an "I'm all right, Jack" country
and the pendulum has stuck there ever since

That's why Blair had to move to the centre - what would have previously been right of centre - to win GEs

LonelyTiredandLow · 13/06/2019 20:17

About 90% of that sounds remarkably familiar to recent events BigChoc. The MT revival club must be thinking all of their Christmases (or Halloweens given the B.day) have come at once Hmm

LonelyTiredandLow · 13/06/2019 20:20

Anyone else finding it surprisingly easy to imagine Trump speaking in "whale" like Dory? Concerning.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/06/2019 20:27

MrsT did have several virtues compared to the current Tory shower:

She was intelligent, highly competent and hard-working

She mostly appointed Cabinet ministers who could do their jobs too

She strongly supported EU (then EC / EEC) membership on economic grounds,
she kept the Tory lunatic fringe, who wanted to leave, under control
and hammered Michael Foot's Labour who wanted to leave (for similar reasons to Corbyn)

She was the main architect of the Single Market

BigChocFrenzy · 13/06/2019 20:29

I can imagine Trump speaking in Klingon - in fact he does tweet in Klingon !