Westministenders: Another Thread, another Shit Show. Its Trump Week

[RedToothBrush]

That is all.

I guess it's a global programme.

Looking for the swathe of Leavers complaining about Trump interfering in our politics like the howling they did when Obama made comments about the risk of voting Leave ...... no? .... tumbleweed and time pass...

As usual, No Dealers are judged by your friends.

Thanks from Madrid red

Donald Trump: send in Nigel Farage to negotiate with the EU

He's gone far beyond normal protocol
Seems to see the UK as already his bitch
A foretaste of what is to come after Brexit

Most Brexiters only object to foreign advice or comments that don't agree with their views

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/02/donald-trump-send-in-nigel-farage-to-neogiate-with-the-eu

Donald Trump has called on Britain to leave the European Union without a deal if Brussels refuses to meet its demands,
as he urged the government to send Nigel Farage into the negotiations.

In his second extraordinary intervention into British politics ahead of this week’s state visit,
the US president suggested the UK should “walk away” from talks and refuse to pay the £39bn divorce bill if its requests were not met.

There is obviously far more loot potenial in a collapsed UK than in Latin American countries

and tremendously more if the Disaster Capitalist wet dream of breaking up the EU ever worked.

RIVALRY too: The EU is the #1 trade bloc in the world, ahead of the US

After Brexit, the E27 would become #2, with the US becoming #1

It's like the episode in a 90's soap/drama where the new kid comes in and breaks up the long term friendship, leading a previously likeable character astray.

Of course I say that with full knowledge UK already had it's enemies. It just seems to me to be so blatantly childish!

I'm quite surprised none of the EU's secret service have targeted Bannon - or some of the other countries he has meddled in. It's as if it is being allowed to happen. If it had been against Russia it would have stopped years ago and Bannon would have been a minor foot note in history. Playing god.

PMK

RIVALRY too: The EU is the #1 trade bloc in the world, ahead of the US
After Brexit, the E27 would become #2, with the US becoming #1

This has always been the reason why the US have such an issue with the EU (same with the Euro btw).
Russia has different issue. They have more strategic issues with the EU being far too close to their borders and interfering with their political agenda (with all that democratic malarkey - how dare they).

Maybe it’s also time to realise that many countries do not like the EU because if the power it has, despite not being a political entity as such....

Why focus on Europe? It's So sinister.

Because Bannon, Trump, the Koch Bros and Robert Mercer, et al want to destroy the EU and with it the protection it gives to business, agriculture and industry within it. In would swoop Monsanto, etc.

It would be unwise to bet the future of the country on the belief that some polls over-estimate the Faragists

I agree... I was just trying to put the poll in context and stop anyone getting despondent... No one can be complacent!

I have been on MN for ages... what does PMK mean?

Not on the acronyms list and don't like not knowing things...

PMK (whatever that means!)

Westministenders' Abbreviations:

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eureferendumm2016/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation?msgid=84503730

If the polls later suggest a big Tory-Brexit majority, then those MPs - and all those from all the Remain parties - might actually have to provide Confidence & Supply for Corbyn to take over, because a GE would just let in No Deal

If the polls suggest a big Brexit/Tory lead to the extent that it is highly likely that they’ll win a GE, then we’re fucked. Though we can’t rule out that happening, I don’t believe that’s a likely scenario. Even if it were, those on the remain side would have blown any political capital they had for at least the next generation by refusing to go to back to the people because they believed they’d lose - even I might be tempted to become a Brexiteer in that scenario!....

.....and all just to delay a no-deal until 2022 (as were the BP/Tories leading by a large margin in the polls later this year, a contrived C&S between Labour/Tory rebels/LDs/SNP would doubtless lead to a BP victory in 2022, especially as such a “Government” would be utterly paralysed on any domestic agenda.

If the Government is brought down by a NC vote, i therefore believe that a GE is the only viable way forward, whatever the polls say (and, as we know from 2017, opinion can change significantly during the course of a campaign).

We won't be getting another extension. France won't want it and Germany has said as much already.

Whatever is coming will be 31st October.

My local post person was talking about the numbers of villagers who are very pro Farage, it seems to have gone beyond the EU and now they want him in Govt.
When people like Widdicombe can get in with her beliefs......

Unless the traditional parties/MPs put their differences aside and form at the very least, a pro remain alliance/party (won't happen) it's quite likely Farage/BXP will form the next Govt, it won't matter what the Tories do over their "dream" no-deal brexit or who is their next leader, the ensuing economic mess will be blamed on the Tories and the public will seek the answer in Farage at the next GE.

I hope i'm wrong about BRX but the Nazi party never had an out right parliamentary majority & took only 2 GE's to seize power.

It's all so depressing this morning, wth Trumps interference and visit and Bannons training camp. I have Labour supporting friends who have turned on me as though I'm essentially an extreme right winger for supporting the Lib Dems for their pro European stance.

DM triumphal headline re EBA:
'UK kicks out fatcat EU bankers and traitors'.

Aha! Hence all the cats. Thanks bigchoc.

I have two cats. No placemats, though.

Piggywaspushed
It's a corruption of placemarking.

'Kicks out'? Typical Trump twist on a story.

FPTP !
For that GE poll, I calculated seats too, parties indescending % order:

Seats Party % vote (% change)

306 The Brexit Party 26 (+2% change)
205 Labour 22 (-7%)
26 Conservative 17 (-5%)
33 Liberal Democrat 16 (+5%)
1 Green 11 (+8%)
56 SNP 4 (no change)
0 UKIP 1 (-1%)
5 Plaid Cymru 1 (+1%)
0 Change UK 1 (-2%)

Brexit short 20 of majority, so could - just - govern with c&s or a coalition with the Tories

As always, FPTP is cruel to the LDems & their geographical voter distibution

In a contest with 4-5 "major" parties, the Faragists could basically replace the Tories in the HoC
They can be the largest party or even win a majority, from about 24%, depending on how the other parties split.

At this level of Faragist support, the Tories would be decimated

• possibly the 2 parties would merge, but only if they let Farage be the leader

However, in this new multi-party situation, polls and seat predictions have a wider margin of error than usual
and also small swings in % to / from Faragists in particular, could cause big changes in seats

Farage and his backers will know exactly how Hitler came to power, who he appealed to and which buttons to press.

{'Kicks out'? Typical Trump twist on a story.}
It is my half hearted attempt, I am sure DGR could have made it far more cutting.

I expect the security services have a lot of info on Bannon and friends and presumably will be collating data across all EU27/28.
East Germany (as was for a while) and other countries will have retained their 'data collecting' capabilities from pre EU membership.
Former Stazi members that are alive would think they are already in heaven with the possibility of hacking into mobile phone data which reveals where almost everyone in Europe is, to the nearest few metres.
I was reading yesterday about the development of Europe wide citizen ID, obviously the UK would want to be out of that, since it is not compulsory to carry ID in the UK at present.

Out of interest what policies do you all think Farage would have in a Government?

Would it be Tory Party on steroids? Any ideas? Difficult to know when he doesn't have a manifesto.