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borntobequiet · 27/05/2019 11:00

CUK made a series of tactical mistakes - probably the worst being standing in these elections. But they’re politicians, that’s what politicians do.I would have liked to support them and agree that by their actions they already changed the Westminster game. But I voted LD as having the better chance of gaining a seat in the West Midlands, by my judgement, and also because the party was my natural home for many years.
I was discussing the outcome of the election with my son this morning. He’s pretty despondent and sees the middle ground shrinking. I on the other hand see the situation now being the real beginning of a seismic shift in UK politics - everything up until now, including the 2016 referendum, being a precursor, and I hope the characteristics of the British people as described well in the middle of the last century by George Orwell, and the different mindset of the younger generation, make it a shift towards the moderate centre left.

Mistigri · 27/05/2019 11:01

Sorry I have been playing 'whack a mole' on other threads, is it finalised that Macron has overtaken Le Pen or are they still on provisional counts?

He's 0.8% behind I believe. Gap came down steeply all last night as city centre and overseas results came in.

I think he'll see that as a good result.

Stilltalkstotrees · 27/05/2019 11:02

Looks to me like BXP have only secured 30% of defecting Tory & Labour votes with the other 70% going to clearly self-defined ‘remain’ parties.

Westministenders: EARRRTHHHHHQQQUUUAAKKKKEEEE

Dongdingdong · 27/05/2019 11:02

Also, has anyone mentioned that the Brexit Party won in Cardiff and Newcastle - two areas that vote to remain in 2016? I was surprised by that.

HagridsBigToe · 27/05/2019 11:02

Garage can't take control of shit. He's not an MP, not part of the government and has no more "say" in the negotiations than Roy next door does.
Yet, unlike Roy, he gets touted around like he's the PM or the Brexit secretary.

FiveAcorns · 27/05/2019 11:03

Also, has anyone mentioned that the Brexit Party won in Cardiff and Newcastle - two areas that vote to remain in 2016? I was surprised by that.

Remain parties had a larger share of the vote in Cardiff didn’t they? Not sure about Newcastle.

Dongdingdong · 27/05/2019 11:06

I’m with the Guardian analysis on this anyway:

Brexit party: the undoubted winner

Nigel Farage’s party has clearly come out on top in terms of votes cast, but the party’s effective anti-establishment campaign was still not quite as good as the some of the polls were suggesting.

On the night, the newly formed Brexit party polled around 31.6%, taking votes from the Conservatives and Labour. That placed it ahead of Ukip’s winning performance in 2014, when Farage’s then party achieved 27.5% in a tighter three-way contest.

The Brexit party had a remarkable run in the traditional Labour territory of Wales, winning, for example, in Cardiff. And in the West Midlands and east of England regions the party scored an impressive 38%; up from Ukip’s 2014 results of 31.5% and 34.5% respectively.

But with the party scoring as high as 37% in polling towards the end of the campaign, the final total was at the lower end of expectations. On the other hand, its margin of victory over the second-placed Lib Dems remained considerable.

prettybird · 27/05/2019 11:08

I think FPTP is in its death throws but it is going to be a long and ugly fight before that is recognised - and the UK economy will be irreparably damaged in the process

It will only be after a succession of ineffective and divisive hung parliaments that this truth will be recognised (and maybe it never will ).

The only "positive" that might come out of it will be Scottish independence, but that only helps a small part of FUKD. Also the strong possibility of a unified Ireland.

Think Argentina in the early 20th century: it was one of the top 5 (6?) economies in the world but a series of bad decisions and poor government meant that its GDP collapsed. A century later and it still hasn't recovered anywhere near its former position.

DGRossetti · 27/05/2019 11:08

Farage can't take control of shit. He's not an MP, not part of the government and has no more "say" in the negotiations than Roy next door does.

Try telling the people that are saying he'll be in charge now.

There are levels of stupidity in any country that simply defy belief.

UnalliterativeGeorge · 27/05/2019 11:09

I get to vote in the Peterborough by election and now have no clue who to vote for. Although I'm resigned to it not making much difference as the amount of Brexiters round here is depressing.

ClarkeMurphy · 27/05/2019 11:09

Whatever was people spin it - 32% of people voted for "brexit at all costs". That's worrying because that is a scary number who either believe No Deal will be fine, or simply don't care how bad it will be. However, it is also heartening because 32% is no where near a majority.

HagridsBigToe · 27/05/2019 11:10

Newcastle

Turnout: 38.8%

Change UK: 2,746
Conservative Party: 3,633
Green Party: 6,629
Labour Party: 16,582
Liberal Democrats: 16,149
The Brexit Party: 18,328
UK Independence Party: 3,395

Leave (Con, UKIP, BP): 25,356
Remain (Change, Green, LD): 25,524

I haven’t counted Labour because they are so wishy-washy on the issue I doubt anybody with a strong view either way voted for them. Obviously this skews the figures a lot. It's pretty much neck-and-neck though.

HagridsBigToe · 27/05/2019 11:10

Oops not sure why the voting figures posted twice!

Peregrina · 27/05/2019 11:13

I wonder if Labour and Tories will now suddenly decide that they would like a proper PR system after all - not the AV, that's not PR. As was said last night, if this had been first past the post, the Tories would have won no seats at all.

HagridsBigToe · 27/05/2019 11:13

Whatever was people spin it - 32% of people voted for "brexit at all costs". That's worrying because that is a scary number who either believe No Deal will be fine, or simply don't care how bad it will be. However, it is also heartening because 32% is no where near a majority.

A 32% of an electorate that doesn't bother to vote can be dangerous.

woman19 · 27/05/2019 11:17

@SamGyimah
Brexit Party won 5.2m votes, so the question for Nigel is where is the rest of the 17.4m “betrayed”. #EUelections2019

(Revoke petition is on 6 085 081 today)

prettybird · 27/05/2019 11:21

Peregrina - unfortunately, I don't think so - at least not yet They are both so arrogant and have so much hubris that it will take a number of inconclusive and damaging GEs before they acknowledge the reality.

They will both cover their eyes and ears and close their minds and continue to insist that this time the people will vote for them

And every time, the Far Right will grow in strength as they con the poorest into thinking that they will actually do something about austerity

lonelyplanetmum · 27/05/2019 11:25

is it ...finalised that Macron has overtaken Le Pen or are they still on provisional counts?

Will the Garagists cosy up with Le Pen in the EP? Bearing in mind the latter is (surprisingly) a Remainer I believe?

Although I suppose it's academic . At 70+ (and with lots of cats to care for) how much time can NF's right hand Widdecombe spend at her EP seat. What a mess.

DGRossetti · 27/05/2019 11:26

I wonder if Labour and Tories will now suddenly decide that they would like a proper PR system after all - not the AV, that's not PR.

It's their choice. My feeling is the electorate have already jumped the shark and we are now in an era of endless minority governments. Exactly the thing FPTP was trumpeted as avoiding ...

When the court case about the denied EU votes is settled and it's concluded there is no value in a vote anyway (which arguably is a get out for the votes for prisoners conundrum) FPTP will look even less effective.

Want a vote ? Get a milkshake.

clairemcnam · 27/05/2019 11:32

Unfortunately the vote does not surprise me. Many people just want the UK to leave the EU and do not understand the complexities.

borntobequiet · 27/05/2019 11:33

Marine Le Pen and her party no longer want to leave the EU because they’ve seen the shambles that is Brexit.
I suspect BREX MEPs will be shunned in the EP even by many of their natural allies. And a comment upthread of them all being chivvied out of the bars and made to do some work by Anne Widdecombe was v funny.

DGRossetti · 27/05/2019 11:34

Many people just want the UK to leave the EU and do not understand the complexities.

Many people isn't most.

Also many people want lots of things that ain't gonna happen.

NoWordForFluffy · 27/05/2019 11:37

Out of interest, has anyone crunched the figures to see how / if the seat allocation would've been different if the results were taken as a whole and not by region (i.e. how Germany does it)? Does it make any marked difference?

32% of 40% is 16-17% of the electorate. We don't have to despair about them (well, we do, but they don't show that 'the will of the people' is to no deal). We need to despair about the 60% who couldn't be arsed to vote. It's these people we need to motivate to put their views across.

HazardGhost · 27/05/2019 11:39

Many people want to win the lottery.

I am one of those many people

clairemcnam · 27/05/2019 11:40

Yes I too suspect Brexit MEPs will be shunned by all except the very right wing MEPs from other countries. Brexit MEPs won't achieve anything.