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Brexit

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...

939 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 09:48

Admitting the mandate for leaving has expired.

The newspapers today are full of Talk of both Corbyn and May panicking that Brexit is destroying their parties, so after nearly 3 years of party politics they have decided that actually they can agree on something in the next week or so. Not because it's in the national interest but because they don't fancy mutual self assured destruction.

If they do manage to cobble something together then it with be rushed and shite.

If they don't they will be punished at the Euro elections by a Remain / Leave pincer action.

They can spin it all they like from their local election disaster that it was people wanting to get on with Brexit. It certainly does not change the reality that those people who were most likely to vote are fed up with the pair of them. And that there is a strong indication that the most motivated voters are remain leaning. Perhaps its true that leavers stayed home in protest. If they did, what will they do if the Brexit Party stand candidates at a general election? Maybe they will vote, but you can't argue that they view voting itself as an important act. Spoilt ballots were up, but not that up. If the pair do manage a deal, then we have Brexited which might satisfy some. The trouble is the underlying issues are not to do with the European Union. And even if we leave with a deal that does not resolve our future trading relationship. The poison that is Brexit won't end. And the voters will realise that soon enough. Leaving even with a deal will harm the economy, and that's only going to fuel discontent.

It's therefore hard to see where either party go from here. Not when they are effectively split internally. The poison is here to stay.

Spinning it as 'it shows the public want us to get on with Brexit' isn't going to help their cause with voters who still think leaving is a national disaster. Those voters will still think its a national disaster and will be even more pissed at being ignored and dismissed once again.

Where is the incentive to return to voting Labour or Conservative?

The Euro Elections, if they go ahead, will therefore be about one thing and one thing only: turnout. Even if the Brexit Party do relatively well, it will be about how many turnout in comparison to the locals and in comparison to the last EU elections. Whilst they might not admit the reality of things, ultimately all Labour and Conservatives really care about is securing the vote of people who will vote because voting intention doesn't win them seats if people don't turnout.

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Sostenueto · 06/05/2019 12:34

There's nothing happening about Brexit it seems Parliament have their heads cemented in the sand!

Sostenueto · 06/05/2019 12:37

I have just watched line of duty followed by GOT so had a good fill of politics.Grin

woman19 · 06/05/2019 12:40

It's a brave politician who purposefully stands under a 'semen tested' sign and styles it out
Grin

NoWordForFluffy · 06/05/2019 12:51

There's nothing happening about Brexit it seems Parliament have their heads cemented in the sand!

Other than the apparently 'constructive' talks which have become, over the weekend' non-constructive and akin to talking to 'a company about to enter administration'. So, they've failed then!

But both sides seemingly want to fudge something so we don't have to take part in EP elections. You couldn't make this shit up if you tried. It's no wonder our politicians are a laughing stock!

TalkinPaece · 06/05/2019 13:01

(A) Still not had my EU polling card

(B) Farage will be being funded by Mercer or Koch - they have the most to lose from the EU remaining strong

(C) Remember that the economy of Russia is now smaller than that of Spain - Putin hits WAY above his true weight

HazardGhost · 06/05/2019 13:08

Once again a belated ta red

TalkinPaece · 06/05/2019 13:09

This infographic highlights several issues that NEED to be addressed by politicians
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2019/may/06/london-v-england-where-does-your-area-fit-in-the-great-divide

Mistigri · 06/05/2019 13:09

Nothing says "we are staying in the EU" like a Raab campaign for PM. He's a total lightweight.

Bizarre times when a Rory Stewart bid for PM looks likely to fail only because ... there are not enough sane Tories to vote for him. By far the best candidate (it's a very very low bar).

Littlespaces · 06/05/2019 13:17

My area comes out as mostly low spend or just making the middle mark.

About what I would expect for the SW.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/05/2019 13:25

May looking at second Brexit vote options if talks fail - Telegraph

3-way choice reportedly - it would be fairest

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-vote/may-looking-at-second-brexit-vote-options-if-talks-fail-telegraph-idUKKCN1SC0OD

The Telegraph reported that May had discussions with officials and ministers about holding a referendum that would give voters the choice between
leaving the European Union with a deal, leaving without a deal, or not leaving at all.

The report cited unnamed government sources, who said
the referendum plan would only become relevant if talks with Labour failed and a majority in parliament supported holding another public vote.

The Telegraph said a source in May’s office denied there had been a meeting to discuss a second EU referendum.
< so is it just the Torygraph floating an idea, or a genuine leak ? >

NoWordForFluffy · 06/05/2019 13:29

leaving the European Union with a deal, leaving without a deal, or not leaving at all.

We really SHOULD NOT give the public the option of no deal and the utter economic chaos it would bring. And it splits the leave vote too, so (if you were bothered about leaving) remain should actually win with those options.

Maybe that's the idea 🤔🤔🤔🤔 So a cunning ruse?!

boldlygoingsomewhere · 06/05/2019 13:32

That infographic is very revealing. My area has much lower average salaries than London but house prices are about the same! Transport spend is rubbish which is also not surprising.

prettybird · 06/05/2019 13:33

I could lower the tone still further and say that I note that it wasn't Ruth Davidson herself under the sign "Semen tested"Grin

But I wouldn't do something like that Wink

IrenetheQuaint · 06/05/2019 13:38

We can't offer No Deal as a referendum option given that it would a) cause chaos and put lives in danger and b) require us to breach the Good Friday Agreement.

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 06/05/2019 13:38

I’ve not had my polling card either talkin I’m a postal voter so should probably start chasing it up.

prettybird · 06/05/2019 13:41

The problem about a vote which includes "leaving with a deal" is that the WA is not the deal Confused

Even if the UK leaves with "no deal", the WA - or something very like it probably not even as good, eg for citizens rights Sad - will still have to be signed before discussions on the actual trade deal can start Confused

Unless of course, the extreme Brexiters have a vision of the UK as the 52nd state of the US, and turning its back on trade with our nearest neighbour Hmm no need to answer that Angry

1tisILeClerc · 06/05/2019 14:16

Brilliant. Over 2 years and we still haven't got around to answering the questions posed 2 years ago.

Littlespaces · 06/05/2019 14:38

If you put three options on a referendum it will just be a confused mess.

Or is it her crafty way of getting the 'No Dealers' to choose no deal as first option with a reallocation to the WA if that gets knocked out? And in the same way the Remainers to choose Remain and reallocate to WA if that gets knocked out.

Hey presto she gets the WA through and unites everyone in dismay.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 06/05/2019 14:52

So we have a new Royal Baby, keep an eye out for hidden news items

CrunchyCarrot · 06/05/2019 14:56

Thanks for the thread, Red Flowers

Some areas only sending out EU polling cards this week - I got an email from our council to say they'd be mailing them this coming week so don't panic if you haven't gotten them yet.

Yes new Royal baby - so glad of the relaxed approach of a clearly delighted Harry rather than stuffy announcements.

tobee · 06/05/2019 14:59

Just had dh messaging me that BBC Parliament Channel is trending top 5 on Twitter.

It's because they are re running 1979 election coverage. 🤮

Shame it's that one because they've shown other General Election coverage on Bank Holidays and it's fascinating and sometimes hilarious. Especially the really ancient ones and surprise result ones.

But 1979? Can't do that trauma. Still too recent! AngryGrin

prettybird · 06/05/2019 15:01

The arrival of Prince George stole ds' televised moment of fame because it was also the day of "One Year to Go" PR activity for the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 06/05/2019 15:05

fluffy I've since read Leavers are against this precisely because it would split the Leave vote
Without a PV, No Deal would be what we end up with, if the HoC remains deadlocked and the E27 don't grant another extension

In fact, unless the HoC votes once more to require the PM to seek a furthe extension, then (s)he won't be required to even ask

pretty The WA at least has the backstop

If we offer a PV, then we have to offer at least 1 option for Leave that actually exists
The WA and No Deal are different degrees of current & future harm, but they are the only versions we could put

prettybird · 06/05/2019 15:22

I agree that the WA has and has to have the backstop - but it is something that no Leaver seems to understand Confused: they just viscerally hate the WA because of the backstop and because it supposedly ties the UK in to being a vassal state, and don't seem to realise that it is only a transition stage during which the UK and EU negotiate the actual agreement.Hmm

And although -this goes over old ground that we on these threads seem to understand but certain MPs don't Wink if the ERGers and DUP and extreme Brexiters/Lexiters were so confident about the technological solutions that supposedly exist that do away with the need for a hard border (or even any border infrastructure), then they shouldn't have anything to worry about with the backstop Confused Looking forward to geotagged milk Grin

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