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Brexit

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...

939 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 09:48

Admitting the mandate for leaving has expired.

The newspapers today are full of Talk of both Corbyn and May panicking that Brexit is destroying their parties, so after nearly 3 years of party politics they have decided that actually they can agree on something in the next week or so. Not because it's in the national interest but because they don't fancy mutual self assured destruction.

If they do manage to cobble something together then it with be rushed and shite.

If they don't they will be punished at the Euro elections by a Remain / Leave pincer action.

They can spin it all they like from their local election disaster that it was people wanting to get on with Brexit. It certainly does not change the reality that those people who were most likely to vote are fed up with the pair of them. And that there is a strong indication that the most motivated voters are remain leaning. Perhaps its true that leavers stayed home in protest. If they did, what will they do if the Brexit Party stand candidates at a general election? Maybe they will vote, but you can't argue that they view voting itself as an important act. Spoilt ballots were up, but not that up. If the pair do manage a deal, then we have Brexited which might satisfy some. The trouble is the underlying issues are not to do with the European Union. And even if we leave with a deal that does not resolve our future trading relationship. The poison that is Brexit won't end. And the voters will realise that soon enough. Leaving even with a deal will harm the economy, and that's only going to fuel discontent.

It's therefore hard to see where either party go from here. Not when they are effectively split internally. The poison is here to stay.

Spinning it as 'it shows the public want us to get on with Brexit' isn't going to help their cause with voters who still think leaving is a national disaster. Those voters will still think its a national disaster and will be even more pissed at being ignored and dismissed once again.

Where is the incentive to return to voting Labour or Conservative?

The Euro Elections, if they go ahead, will therefore be about one thing and one thing only: turnout. Even if the Brexit Party do relatively well, it will be about how many turnout in comparison to the locals and in comparison to the last EU elections. Whilst they might not admit the reality of things, ultimately all Labour and Conservatives really care about is securing the vote of people who will vote because voting intention doesn't win them seats if people don't turnout.

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borntobequiet · 10/05/2019 10:09

OK I'm easily swayed - LD for me despite their batshitness on gender politics
CUK at next GE

DGRossetti · 10/05/2019 10:11

I think the Leadership was a bit naive in not realising just how the Tories would treat their junior partners.

Well it's all history now. Besides, it seems odd to punish a political party for being too nice Hmm.

In 2010, no one no one would have blamed the LibDems if they had just said "up yours pig fucker" and left Cameron in the same sorry mess May has managed to achieve. We could have limped on lurching from crisis to crisis with every parliamentary vote being a knife-edge and no one being quite sure what's what. All during the worst financial crisis for a generation. The fact they didn't - the fact they put their own credibility on the line to maintain a semblance of order in UK politics - should be respected, if not applauded.

They're not the second coming - and have plenty of scope to be as awful as Labour and Tory. But to sum up 2010-2015 with "tuition fees" betrays a lack of realisation about how the world works. Leading me to wonder which direction the epithet "naive" should be pointing in ....

HippyHobbitHumper · 10/05/2019 10:12

Remainer (pro-revoke) here. What about East of England, is it Lib Dems if I were to vote tactically?

DGRossetti · 10/05/2019 10:14

Remainer (pro-revoke) here. What about East of England, is it Lib Dems if I were to vote tactically?

The whole point of PV systems is to avoid tactical voting, surely ?

MrPan · 10/05/2019 10:15

I think LD slightly less batshit on gender stuff than Greens, where people are either men, or non-men.

borntobequiet · 10/05/2019 10:16

Well if I'm going to vote LD you all can and save the agonizing.

DGRossetti · 10/05/2019 10:20

I think LD slightly less batshit on gender stuff than Greens, where people are either men, or non-men.

One battle at a time. As I asked in a previous life thread, when did politicians and parties have to match 100% before we'd vote for them. Surely we've always had to accept there's a trade off ? How many Labour voters detest Trident ? How many Tories detest gay marriage ?

In reference to another poster - let's deal with our hair being on fire first. Then tackle the next problem.

Flowerplower · 10/05/2019 10:20

I'm a labour party member in the NW but have finally made up my mind to vote LD.

ContinuityError · 10/05/2019 10:33

South east voter here (so Faragit central) - seen it suggested to vote Lib Dem to confirm their seat or Green to give them a shot at a seat lower down the list. Think I’ll go Lib Dem as Catherine Bearder seems to be a good MEP.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 10/05/2019 10:41

dd would like to know if her Lib Dem vote would be more effective in the SE or Eastern region?

bellinisurge · 10/05/2019 11:15

I'm planning to vote Lib Dem unless I see a realistic prospect of any other non-Brexit Party being the leading party in NW England where I live.
To me a vote for: Tory , Labour, Brexit Party, UKIP/EDL or other batshit is a vote to say Brexit is a great idea.
It's a shit idea but I am prepared to accept a Brexit that doesn't fuck with GFA. As every single Brexit type Party seems content to fuck with GFA, I have no other choice.
I despise all this woke shit on trans issues which shove women's rights out of the way but, one thing at a time. To follow what a more eloquent pp has said: My hair is metaphorically on fire and I need to deal with that first.

QueenOfThorns · 10/05/2019 11:17

Well if I'm going to vote LD you all can and save the agonizing.

It’s a deal!

DGRossetti · 10/05/2019 11:21

It's a shit idea but I am prepared to accept a Brexit that doesn't fuck with GFA.

If NI is to remain in the UK, there isn't one. Period. And ironically, as a remainer I am far more relaxed about a united Ireland than the Brexiteers that seem determined to make it happen.

LonelyTiredandLow · 10/05/2019 11:30

DGR - I feel the same about independent Scotland, Wales and Ireland. I have a lot of empathy for them all wanting to distance themselves for starters... Why do Leavers have this seemingly dogged need to drag everyone down with them?

MrPan · 10/05/2019 11:41

There is that re independence and esp Scotland. I don't think the sloganeering brexiters give that any air time in their heads.

Totes agree on the hair on fire analogy - just a consideration of which brand of fire extinguisher should be used...

BercowsSilkTie · 10/05/2019 11:44

Oooh I've had election bumf from the LDs. I'm in the North West.

I'm not a fan of them due to their stance on women but at the moment brexit is the most important thing on the agenda.

Motheroffourdragons · 10/05/2019 11:46

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 10/05/2019 11:50

Where I am in Scotland, only the man of the house is receiving addressed literature from the Brexit party.

Same here, Lisette .

I’ve shredded it. And taken the shredded remains to the tip.

Peregrina · 10/05/2019 11:55

Oh I haven't had anything yet from the Brexcrement party. I was looking forward to posting it back unstamped.

thethethethethe · 10/05/2019 12:02

Also in Scotland. Only 16 year old dd has been contacted by the Brexit party. Too young to vote.

DGRossetti · 10/05/2019 12:02

The problem with the lib dems in addition to tuition fees is that they sat there and watched all the austerity cuts being rolled out.

Bear in mind they were a minority party ...

Maybe they held the tories in check

Maybe !? - just look at the austerity-on-steroids, rape clause benefits slash and burn we saw the second they were dumped.

but I have a feeling we wouldn't be here today in the middle of all this brexit shit if they had not gone into coalition with them.

Well yes, if that was different then this would be too ...

But that's what happens when greedy politicians have their eye on power.

If the LDs really were self-serving, they'd have told posh-boy Cameron to "do one" and just leveraged much more from the Tories in a C&P agreement a la DUP. It was precisely because they were principled they got shafted.

It's all very well to carry on a vendetta against the LDs for decisions taken in what may as well have been a different country a long time ago. But until we have a halfway credible centre party to replace them, we need them. Otherwise there will be nowhere for centrists to exist anymore. And I don't want to find myself voting for Stalin to stop Hitler. Or vice versa.

bellinisurge · 10/05/2019 12:03

Voting Lib Dem certainly requires me to hold my nose. But I sure as hell can't vote for a Brexit type party. Which includes Labour the Enabler.

LonelyTiredandLow · 10/05/2019 12:05

Oh yes @Peregrina - do we have an address for return envelopes?

DGRossetti · 10/05/2019 12:07

Which includes Labour the Enabler.

Now that is a good slogan ... I can see it going viral - maybe achieving something ?

MrPan · 10/05/2019 12:16

Still refer back in my mind to Barry Gardiner saying to some Tory "we're trying to bail you guys out here". Insufferable and unacceptable. Vote lost right there.

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