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Brexit

Westminstenders: Why the Irish Border isn't a Remain/EU Plot

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 20/04/2019 10:10

I hope the events of this week give the ERG the kick up the backside over this that they need.

I doubt it will, but I live in hope. The alternative is too horrid to contemplate.

I'll leave this here instead as a reminder of what choice Brexit was always going to come down to.

Happy Easter everyone.

Westminstenders: Why the Irish Border isn't a Remain/EU Plot
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Micky665544 · 27/04/2019 13:14

and of course, what you really have to look at here is who is saying 'no, this can't work!'

For sure, it's always Remainers, the EU and the Irish government - wonder why?

It's because they DONT WANT IT TO WORK, not because it can't work!

DGRossetti · 27/04/2019 13:17

Whole article

www.patreon.com/posts/hard-centre-is-26357879

patreon.com
The hard-centre is racist | Richard Seymour on Patreon
5-6 minutes

This article was initially commissioned and published by the Independent. It was spiked within hours.

Within twenty-four hours, Change UK racked up more racism scandals than the Brexit Party, Farage’s shifty bunch of ghouls. How?

It is partly amateurism. Two candidates were caught out by old, casually racist, social media posts. Ali Sajdady, who was to represent the group in London, had said: “When I hear that 70% of pick pockets caught on the London Underground are Romanian it kind makes me want Brexit.” Joseph Russo, the top candidate in Scotland, had put his fear of black women down to having been “chased through Amsterdam by a crazy black whore”.

They had probably forgotten about this offhand racism. Any professional party would have warned them that old tweets could become an issue. No matter how small the audience for something posted seven years ago, the potential audience for it is in the entire internet. That’s the corollary of Twitter’s microcelebrity lotto. And even if your candidates aren’t racist, no one is so squeaky-clean as to be invulnerable. Anyone aspiring to be a candidate should surely be begged to scrub or delete their old accounts.

So if Change UK didn’t do this, they might not be tactical geniuses. They may also complacently assume that racism is a nasty attitude displayed only on the ‘extremes’, to which ‘moderates’ are immune. For example, when Chuka Umunna’s old Blue Labour-inflected anti-immigration tweets are brought up, the prevalent assumption appears to be that this can’t be racist because he is a moderate, professional politician. This logic is exemplified by the dubious Anna Soubry. The second she attacked Theresa May’s racism on immigration, the smart bet was that her voting record would show that she had consistently voted to make life harder for immigrants and refugees. For, Soubry had been careful to impugn May’s “personal” attitude to immigrants, as though the issue were individual prejudice. Soubry could thus defend her record by insisting that she doesn’t have a “personal” problem with immigrants. After all, she voted to make life harder for almost everyone, particularly the most vulnerable, sick, disabled and jobless.

Perhaps more worrying, though, is the niche obsession that leading members of Change UK militantly defend. Who would die in a ditch for the right of Nora Mulready, a right-wing exile from Haringey Labour, to be a self-appointed hammer of Islam? Why should a small party struggling for progressive support rally for her right to define, against the Muslim Council of Britain and Tell MAMA, what is ‘Koranically justified’? Whence her theological authority? Why do they need a candidate whose reaction to right-wing protests in Pakistan is to panic about immigration, or who thinks that Tommy Robinson “touched a societal raw nerve”? What part of the Remain constituency is going to be set alight by this sort of Islam-baiting edgelordism. Yet Mike Gapes, Joan Ryan and Ann Coffey, all of whom resigned from the Labour Party citing allegations of institutional racism, have all lined up with Mulready on Twitter. And they are doing so with that soul-wearying, petty, sanctimonious belligerence that politicians have begun to display on social media.

That’s because Gapes and company are unreformed relics of New Labour, defending a legacy they ought to be burying. Beginning with Jack Straw accusing gypsies of shitting in shop doorways, and reaching its apex when Tony Blair blamed “black culture” for a wave of knife-crime in London, New Labour jolted the language on race to the right. Intellectuals and politicians of the hard-centre adopted a neo-Powellite, culturalist language on race. They complained that Britain’s minorities, particularly Muslims, were ‘self-segregating’, refusing to ‘integrate’, a threat to ‘Britishness’, in need of surveillance and policing. They claimed that immigration was a threat to the welfare state and community cohesion. On the neocon-curious end of this tendency, this bled into a nerdy, hyperventilating fixation on tendentious readings of the Koran and Muslim history. This was all congruent with policy: militarism abroad, internment, surveillance and police shootings at home. By 2006, when Jack Straw was a Home Secretary berating Muslim women for wearing the niqab, a congenial Blairite columnist could write: “I try to imagine how I would feel if this rainstorm of headlines substituted the word ‘Jew’ for ‘Muslim’ … I would be looking for my passport.”

As the Blairite Dan Hodges once put it, Labour’s language drove the BNP’s obsessions up the agenda. It propelled the nationalist-right to years of success. Blair, the patron saint of this tendency, is still at it, blaming migrants and multiculturalism for the far-right. Thankfully, that era of Labour’s history has passed. The Labour Party the Tiggers left is far less racist than the Labour Party the Tiggers loved. That’s the stark truth about Change UK. Just because they’re pro-European doesn’t mean they’re anti-racist.

Peregrina · 27/04/2019 13:23

goods can be checked at warehouses on arrival/departure, hence no border checks

So the warehouses become the border. Hardly frictionless. Why do the EU want to protect their borders -for the same reason that Leavers wanted to control their borders. Who wants to see violence openly break out again in N Ireland? I begin to think that a significant number of Leavers either do, or couldn't care less. However if the bombing comes to England again, they might begin to care.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/04/2019 13:27

The EU have accepted Brexit and moved on
They granted yet another extension only because they don't want to kick out the UK, when the Uk govt and Parliament are in such chaos

The WA is the Brexit Exit Deal, which all 28 heads of govt of the EU, including UK, signed up to.

It contains the backstop, which is the only way to protect both EU member Ireland and the Single Market

Under WTO rules, if the EU / Ireland let through goods from the UK without a deal, then they would have to treat goods from every other country just the same,
e.g. let in chlorinated chicken from the US, poisoned baby formula from China .....

That would wreck the EU Single Market

The EU don't want No Deal, but they'd accept it rather than damage their Single Market.

prettybird · 27/04/2019 13:42

Silly us Wink. That's why Norway and Sweden, Switzerland and France, Turkey and Greece have to have those pesky hard borders and checkpoints. Confused

They just don't believe hard enough Hmm

1tisILeClerc · 27/04/2019 13:47

I think the new contributor has strayed from the 'choosing a handbag' thread.

TalkinPaece · 27/04/2019 13:50

well the cows have to get over the border somehow, so this is where ANPR comes in
The border runs through fields and farmyards.
ANPR has not yet learned how to read fur patterns on Aberdeen Angus Wink

The Border between RoI and Northern Ireland is 320 miles long
and has more crossing points that that between the US and Canada

borntobequiet · 27/04/2019 13:59

Does anyone have a link to the handbag thread? I need a new bag. There’s also a mum bob thread available for useful informed contributions. Visitors love a bob thread.

borntobequiet · 27/04/2019 14:02

But AI could learn Aberdeen Angus markings, I’m sure, after looking at hundreds of thousands of them. We shouldn’t let the bogeyman of impracticality limit the infinite capacity of our imagination.

TalkinPaece · 27/04/2019 14:02

The Prince William thread is the most surreal at the moment ....

TalkinPaece · 27/04/2019 14:03

borntobequiet
But AI could learn Aberdeen Angus markings
Look up some pictures of aberdeen angus Grin Wink

1tisILeClerc · 27/04/2019 14:32

{But AI could learn Aberdeen Angus markings}

Put a rosette on it and I will vote for it. I am sure most would be 'remain' voters.

bellinisurge · 27/04/2019 14:37

Torn between patiently explaining to our new contributor why , "no, that doesn't work " and "don't be so fucking stupid".

countrygirl99 · 27/04/2019 14:37

What's a bob thread?

borntobequiet · 27/04/2019 14:40

I only have to look out of my window in the summer! Currently I see sheep...and lovely little lambs...

BestIsWest · 27/04/2019 14:40

Wow, the Prince William thread. Thank you for that TiP. I’ve just spent 40 minutes boggling at it.

1tisILeClerc · 27/04/2019 14:43

bellinisurge
Anyone who can't understand the basics of Brexit 3 years down the line can only be a troll of some sort.

I can only presume 'bob' refers to a hairdo, or a local expression for pooing your pants.

borntobequiet · 27/04/2019 14:44

A bob thread can be about Mum bobs, French bobs, short bobs, long bobs, wavy bobs...not as contentious as towels, but capable of getting heated. Mum boots is another popular subject, as is the merits/demerits of bootcut jeans. I’m not being disparaging, I thoroughly enjoy these threads and a) got a haircut b) bought very nice jeans from Sainsbury’s because of them. Anyway I’m a granny.

Ellie56 · 27/04/2019 15:03

What am I missing? What Prince William thread?

borntobequiet · 27/04/2019 15:07

This thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3569162-To-think-the-UK-media-silence-on-the-Prince-William-rumours-is-odd?pg=6
Damn and blast whoever mentioned it first. Now my vacuuming isn’t being done, and I’ll have to eat from the freezer.

jasjas1973 · 27/04/2019 15:20

@Micky665544

Have you a list of countries where border checks have been removed in favour of the ideas you've suggested?

Just wondering why, if it's so easy to do, it's not been replicated around the world.... or shall we bin it under "alternative arrangements" ?

TalkinPaece · 27/04/2019 15:20

I'm still chuckling at the trolling of the pro Brexit FB groups
telling them to vote for both Nigel's new party AND his old one
to make sure their vote counts Grin

TalkinPaece · 27/04/2019 15:22

borntobequiet
Aberdeens do not have the most variable of colour schemes though ;-)

1tisILeClerc · 27/04/2019 15:33

{Aberdeens do not have the most variable of colour schemes though ;-)}

They do have their very fetching yellow ear tags though.
Will they be getting blue passports do you think?