Westminstenders: Why the Irish Border isn't a Remain/EU Plot

[RedToothBrush]

I hope the events of this week give the ERG the kick up the backside over this that they need.

I doubt it will, but I live in hope. The alternative is too horrid to contemplate.

I'll leave this here instead as a reminder of what choice Brexit was always going to come down to.

Happy Easter everyone.

Did they not have to change some legislation in order to allow the NI Civil Servants to spend some of the bung NI budget?

I'm sure I remember Another Angry Voice being pro Brexit pre referendum. I think he pushed the Lexit view.

I've signed up to the Remain Voter website and am hoping for clear direction because right now I have no idea of the best way to vote. I'm in the NW. I am voting Lib at the elections next week but was going to do that anyway as the total Labour domination of the council is not good.

Heidi Allen is getting slated on twitter for even considering the idea of having no deal as an option on a second ballot. The CHUKs are having a nightmare of a campaign launch. There is no way I will vote for them if they are considering this option.

They’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Lots of people seem to think that “no deal is better than a bad deal” and lots (evidently) think May’s deal is a bad deal...which in one sense it is (worse than Remain) and another that it isn’t (better than a crash out)..all depending on your POV, which may or may not have been arrived at by applying reason.

Agree borntobequiet which is why I am frustrated by those politicians/commentariat calling for a second referendum but with no detail or substance behind the appeal. There is no clarity on what options they want or what will happen depending on the result. It's just more meaningless rhetoric which is how we got into this mess in the first place. I am fed up with the lot of them but will vote for whichever party I think will stop the far right gaining seats.

Things would go a lot more smoothly if the UK would understand that if it is leaving at all, then the WA as it stands, WILL be signed whatever anyone thinks.
The choice then boils down to signing it soon and getting a transition period, even a massively truncated one if the UK really wants to go 'cold turkey', or to crash out and be dragged back to sign the WA before any trade negotiations happen.

all depending on your POV, which may or may not have been arrived at by applying reason. ... 😂 brilliant, born I will use this in daily life.

Of course you’re right, leClerc. I fell into the trap of using the deal terminology for the WA. Now I wonder what May has actually meant all along with the no deal soundbite. Perhaps she doesn’t know either.

I had a flyer through from Scottish Greens yesterday which implies that only a vote for them could keep out the UKIP MEP here.

It’s been a few threads ago now pretty but if I interpreted your data correctly I don’t think that’s entirely true?

Also a scary article in The Times today (can’t link because of firewall ☹️) which theorised that a the Scottish Tory vote will move to Farage and hence a Brexit party MEP.

I will not vote for the Tiggers as they have turned out to be all about ego.
It will have to be Lib Dem as they are the only party who have stuck to their guns since before 2016

Scooby, you’re welcome!

The reason not to put 'no deal' on a ballot (beyond NI and lack of medicines - but no one will listen to that) is that it isn't a PLAN. It is the same as 'leave' in 2016 - 'here's what we want to do ... no idea what happens next though.'
The POINT of any confirmatory referendum is not to check whether we've changed our minds - it's to check whether we sign up to the PLAN - clearly defined positions of what leave and remain look like and we get to choose.
If they put no deal on the ballot then they really might as well just rerun the straight leave vs remain ballot of 2016 - because there is no more clarity, there is no more idea of what will happen in the future, it is still just people voting for their wishes.

Unless no dealers can outline how long no deal last for, when we are allowed to start seeking trade deals with Europe, what terms would be acceptable to them, what they are prepared to suffer if those terms are not forthcoming and exactly why a trade deal with Europe has to be so amazing and beneficial or it's treason but they are willing to sign anything that the U.S faxes through - then they are not offering a plan, they are offering more confusion, less clarity and no direction for us to head in beyond the immediate day of brexit.

Any government is well within it's rights to refuse to put something non-defined on a ballot paper. And any politician entertaining the idea 'because it's popular' is an idiot. They should answer calls for no deal with - 'OK - then what?' And when they can't answer that without citing WTO rules that do not apply in this situation they should be told 'that's why you're not getting it. If we no deal we don't know what happens next.'

The point of a confirmatory referendum is to stop the confusion - not add to it.

There is of course the ready made 'plan' in the WA which defines WHAT happens, but not necessarily when. Apart from the 3 'basics' in the WA, AFTER it is signed the PD defines timetable and there could be some room for mutually acceptable 'wiggle'. Getting the WA over the line is the big problem for the UK of course.
The fact that whatever happens the UK will be full of ferrets fighting in a sack doesn't bode well for any negotiation, from now until the foreseeable future, with anybody, EU/USA/Russia/China.

best solution here would be to just get 'backstop' removed from the WA - of course this would need some kind of management change both at home and in EU Parliament - however, I can see this happening soon

it's the only real way forward

Oh God, that's another fairy off to Dignitas!

hardly, I mean, just get rid of May and Junker, and have some more practical people take over

the time is coming - the backstop is a pure ruse to keep UK in the EU - it has no other purpose and nearly everyone knows it

Juncker will be gone soon anyway. May - who knows - if she were a cat she would already have used six or seven lives up. Of course, we could put the border in the Irish Sea which gets round some of the problems of the backstop - that is what the rest of the EU originally wanted, but May persuaded them otherwise.

It really is time that Leavers like Micky come up with some workable solutions for NI - not the pie in the sky stuff of technology which has not been invented. Otherwise they are just spouting hot air.

countrygirl99 or more like

sure it's easy - we just use point of sale type checks to see where goods have come from - this is already used, for ex if you try stocking a supermarket with wrongly barcoded products (ie. ciggies from Gibraltar) it soon shows up

we just use point of sale type checks to see where goods have come from
Where is the barcode on a cow?
and after it has been cut up and minced?
and the bones turned into glue?
EPOS works fine on finished goods, less useful in agriculture
barcode on a grain of wheat anybody
or JIT manufacturing

well the cows have to get over the border somehow, so this is where ANPR comes in.

sure it's easy - we just use point of sale type checks to see where goods have come from - this is already used, for ex if you try stocking a supermarket with wrongly barcoded products (ie. ciggies from Gibraltar) it soon shows up

If it was so easy why hasn't this already been suggested?

Micky665544 can only be a pathetic troll with such ridiculous and simplistic comments.

{sure it's easy - we just use point of sale type checks to see where goods have come from - this is already used, for ex if you try stocking a supermarket with wrongly barcoded products (ie. ciggies from Gibraltar) it soon shows up}

Even this won't work as it requires a 'border' where the goods are checked.
The UK government has shown itself to be untrustworthy already with even cabinet members saying they will renege on some commitments the UK might make.

< weeps over another dead Brexit fairy >

Only a complete ignoramus would think that removing Juncker - who will retire anyway in October - would remove the backstop

The EU will not risk their Single Market - on which their prosperity depends - just to get the UK Tory Party out of the Brexit hole it has dug for itself

It would be pointless anyway, because Ireland, along with most other E27 members, would veto any negotiations for the future trade deal until the Uk signs the backstop

goods can be checked at warehouses on arrival/departure, hence no border checks

this happens already