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Brexit

Westminstenders: A False Sense of Security

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/04/2019 22:34

The new exit date, unless we agree a deal sooner, is the 31st October.

It seems ages away, but its runs the risk of a false sense of security too.

The first deadline is May 22nd. The Conservative Party would dearly like to avoid European Elections. They are already liable to face wipe out in the early May local elections, as the party was at its peak in 2015 under Cameron when there were last elections.

The EU elections have the added danger of proportional representation meaning UKIP and The Brexit Party could win seats from them. This is despite polling suggesting that Ukip and the Brexit Party are unlikely to reach the high watermark of 2015 and this could lead to fewer UKIP style MEPs this time round.

The liklihood of a deal by 22nd May is low though. Especially given how well Tory - Labour talks are going. The potential for a deal seems remote in the next few weeks.

The next deadline falls on 30th June. If we do have EU elections, the next target for the Tory Party is the end of June to get a deal before the newly elected MEPs can take their seats. However if the goal is unachievable before EU elections, it seems unlikely that agreement will be found in the next 30 days unless there is a major change of heart amongst the hardcore ERG and the DUP. Labour will want to see the Tories humiliated too much.

May who says she will go, will face another wave of pressure to resign during May and June. Messages out of No10, though not May herself, had indicated an exit around 22nd May on the condition a deal was done. Crafty as ever, what May actually said was she would stay on until we reached the second stage of Brexit and had effectively left. This now falls as late as Oct 31st, thus killing plans for a summer Tory leader election.

Once we get past June though, time for a deal, any deal starts to become very limited. Parliament only sits until mid July. Here May hits another problem. The two year parliamentary session ends. There has been talk of it being extended but the DUP have firmly said no to this.

This means when parliament is due to return in September we have an issue. To start a new session May will need a majority to pass a Queens Speech. If the DUP and Hardline ERGers withdraw support in protest at May still being PM what happens? Can May win support from elsewhere. It seems unlikely.

At this point the question of a General Election looms large. And we only have six weeks from then before we exit the EU. If a GE is triggered then, the risk of no deal is extremely high, which might encourage some to support May from across the aisle to prevent parliament from being shut and losing those crucial six weeks.

The danger over the next few weeks, is there is a false sense of there being lots of time left. The reality is our real deadline might be in effect the end of the parliamentary session in mid July. After that all bets are off.

The date of 31st October isn't the one you should keep your eyes on.

OP posts:
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WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 13/04/2019 18:39

Talk - no local elections here either - wish there were !

AwdBovril · 13/04/2019 18:43

I've only got a yard, so everything is in pots, but I managed to get a couple of tiny polytunnels in Morrisons, small enough to go in a medium planter box. No idea if they'll be any good, but it's worth a go. DD has brought me a runner bean (pea?) sprout home from school & she asks about it every day, & I've put some french beans in to sprout as well. I always do strawberries in hanging baskets, because otherwise they just seem to end up as a slug buffet.
In a wildly optimistic moment, I'm also trying out germinating an avocado stone as well. Maybe I'll be able to sell them for £££ in about 10 years, when avocados are a rarity.

I love the NHS, by the way. Will miss it when/if it's gone. Certainly couldn't have afforded an emergency CT scan today if we lived in the USA.

MissMalice · 13/04/2019 18:44

Pmk

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 13/04/2019 18:55

countrygirl - do you mean the ad with Richard Ayoade? I often think about Brexit when I see that one.

and

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 13/04/2019 18:56

I see Nige has decided that what this whole mess needs is another fucking BUS...

Littlespaces · 13/04/2019 19:02

Very worrying as I don’t think many people will realise the danger of the split pro-EU vote sad Is there done way to get this message out?

Everybody needs to bombard Lib Dems, Greens and The Independent Group (Change.org) with multiple e mails / messages to ask them to stand as a Remain Coalition in the EU elections.

If they refuse to do that then circulate that link to as many people as possible so that people don't accidently waste their vote.

Icantreachthepretzels · 13/04/2019 19:22

Happy Birthday GeistohneGrenzen - may this be the first of many where Brexit has not materialised Flowers

prettybird · 13/04/2019 19:32

Apart from the EP elections, there are no elections due in Scotland until the 2021 Scottish Parliament elections (barring the odd council by-election)Shock .

I truly hope that howabout is wrong and that UKIP loses its sole Scottish MEP and The Brexit Party also fails. I know I'll be out there campaigning to stop that (or rather, to encourage a more positive and realistic message than the one that they promulgate) - and dh has said that he will join me Smile And I'm going to encourage ds to get the student vote out in Aberdeen. He is after all studying Politics and International Relations Grin

Don't care who they vote for as long as it is SNP, LibDem, Green - or even Labour (as Catherine Stihler has actually been pretty good). Loooking at the Leith Walk result, the Leave parties haven't got a foothold in Edinburgh - but it depends how they activate people elsewhere to get out and vote. I'm always wary of trying to "game" PR voting systems and do think that you should vote for positive reasons in (proper) PR (as opposed to FPTP, where yes, you often do need to vote "against" who you don't want).

prettybird · 13/04/2019 19:34

And happy birthday GeistohneGrenzen Flowers

May you have plenty of GinWineCake and Glitterball for years to come Smile

Oakenbeach · 13/04/2019 19:41

Everybody needs to bombard Lib Dems, Greens and The Independent Group (Change.org) with multiple e mails / messages to ask them to stand as a Remain Coalition in the EU elections.

Absolutely, it’s ridiculous that they are competing. I heard an interview this morning about this with a Change UK MP and a LibDem MP, and all they could say was that the proportional system meant it didn’t matter....

It DOES matter! In London I believe there are 8 seats up for grabs... Very roughly I believe that means you need 12.5% per seat. So if Change UK, Lib Dem’s and Greens get 11% each (33% in total) and Brexit Party gets 13% and UKIP 2% (15% in total), Brexit parties would get a seat, while Remain parties despite, despite them getting less than half the vote! They need to get real!

Sostenueto · 13/04/2019 19:59

Just back from Cambridge. It was so cold! Even though the sun came out!

BigChocFrenzy · 13/04/2019 20:55

we've already learned from this Brexit mess that UK politicians can't do maths, or apply their brains

Littlespaces · 13/04/2019 21:15

Must admit that I'm shocked by the lack of strategy.

I'm the least strategic person around but even I can see they need to team up into a coalition.

Iambuffy · 13/04/2019 21:23

Coalitions are seen as toxic now.
the lib dems may never recover

TalkinPaece · 13/04/2019 21:28

They need not do a coalition
they could just do a non compete agreement
so they look at which party has the best chances in each patch and between them set that many remain candidates
eg
South East gets 10 MEPS
3 Tig, 3 Libdem, 3 Green, one random candidate
= clean sweep for remain with no stress

5 TiG, 5 Libdem, 5 Green
gives open goal for the Kippers

Iambuffy · 13/04/2019 21:30

Ah
Tactics?
They don't seem very good at those

Littlespaces · 13/04/2019 21:39

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Sostenueto · 13/04/2019 22:06

British steel asking for £300 million loan as it can't pay its pollution bill to the EU.

RedToothBrush · 13/04/2019 22:11

Christopher Hope @christopherhope
EXCLUSIVE Tomorrow’s Sunday Telegraph splash

The two surviving former 1922 chairmen Michael Spicer and Archie Hamilton say Conservative MPs can change the party’s leadership rules - which mean no challenge until December - and force out Theresa May in the next few months.

In an intervention which will electrify the party Michael Spicer and Archie Hamilton – who drew up and developed the current rules - say: “Conservative MPs are responsible for their party. If they wish to change these rules there is nothing standing in their way.”

Sir Graham Brady tells us: “It is my understanding that the rules could in future be changed by the agreement of the 1922 executive." He added that it was "less certain that it would be possible to change the rules during the current period of grace” which runs to 12 December.

OP posts:
Tanith · 13/04/2019 22:12

Hope your Cambridge visit went well, Sostenueto!

woman19 · 13/04/2019 22:13

Corbyn told to back new EU referendum or lose millions of supporters

A generation of young people could desert the party, says Richard Corbett, leader of Labour MEPs

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/13/corbyn-told-back-eu-referendum-or-lose-millions-voters-brexit

Tanith · 13/04/2019 22:14

I would include Richard Ashcroft and Julie Girling as potential vote considerations. Both are pro-EU.

woman19 · 13/04/2019 22:17

.

Westminstenders: A False Sense of Security
Icantreachthepretzels · 13/04/2019 22:19

Richard Corbett is one of my MEPs. He seems to be pretty good - has a good attendance record and is seemingly anti-brexit. Now he's talking about the need for labour to back a PV. So ... do I vote for labour in the EU elections because he is, personally, a good MEP and aligned with my thinking - and risk the 80% trap all over again. Or do I go for a proper remain party?
Current Yorkshire and Humber MEPs are 2 labour, 2 tory and 2 ukip.

Peregrina · 13/04/2019 22:21

The trouble is, as I see it, that in the EU elections you vote for a party list, and I am not sure how the Remain parties could be combined. In an ideal world, I would prefer the STV system and could then order my individual preferences, and would happily vote for those moderate one-time Tories somewhere in the list, who have been driven out by the rabid right wingers.