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Brexit

Westminstenders: A False Sense of Security

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/04/2019 22:34

The new exit date, unless we agree a deal sooner, is the 31st October.

It seems ages away, but its runs the risk of a false sense of security too.

The first deadline is May 22nd. The Conservative Party would dearly like to avoid European Elections. They are already liable to face wipe out in the early May local elections, as the party was at its peak in 2015 under Cameron when there were last elections.

The EU elections have the added danger of proportional representation meaning UKIP and The Brexit Party could win seats from them. This is despite polling suggesting that Ukip and the Brexit Party are unlikely to reach the high watermark of 2015 and this could lead to fewer UKIP style MEPs this time round.

The liklihood of a deal by 22nd May is low though. Especially given how well Tory - Labour talks are going. The potential for a deal seems remote in the next few weeks.

The next deadline falls on 30th June. If we do have EU elections, the next target for the Tory Party is the end of June to get a deal before the newly elected MEPs can take their seats. However if the goal is unachievable before EU elections, it seems unlikely that agreement will be found in the next 30 days unless there is a major change of heart amongst the hardcore ERG and the DUP. Labour will want to see the Tories humiliated too much.

May who says she will go, will face another wave of pressure to resign during May and June. Messages out of No10, though not May herself, had indicated an exit around 22nd May on the condition a deal was done. Crafty as ever, what May actually said was she would stay on until we reached the second stage of Brexit and had effectively left. This now falls as late as Oct 31st, thus killing plans for a summer Tory leader election.

Once we get past June though, time for a deal, any deal starts to become very limited. Parliament only sits until mid July. Here May hits another problem. The two year parliamentary session ends. There has been talk of it being extended but the DUP have firmly said no to this.

This means when parliament is due to return in September we have an issue. To start a new session May will need a majority to pass a Queens Speech. If the DUP and Hardline ERGers withdraw support in protest at May still being PM what happens? Can May win support from elsewhere. It seems unlikely.

At this point the question of a General Election looms large. And we only have six weeks from then before we exit the EU. If a GE is triggered then, the risk of no deal is extremely high, which might encourage some to support May from across the aisle to prevent parliament from being shut and losing those crucial six weeks.

The danger over the next few weeks, is there is a false sense of there being lots of time left. The reality is our real deadline might be in effect the end of the parliamentary session in mid July. After that all bets are off.

The date of 31st October isn't the one you should keep your eyes on.

OP posts:
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Flowerplower · 19/04/2019 10:12

I started doing YouGov for points when I was going through a "no spend" phase - now I just do YouGov to express my views because doing it for points is a chump's game. You accrue points very very slowly and I estimate it would take me well over a year of doing surveys twice a week to even approach a £50 payout (the minimum you can redeem). That is a really poor return and other points websites pay out much more quickly. If the majority of people doing YouGov are doing it for points that will really bias the populations they are surveying. I don't know how ComRes gets people to do surveys, though.

On another note, there was a discussion about how much people love fleabag a few threads ago so I started watching. Omg, thank you, funniest show I've ever seen in my life. See you at the sexhibition! Grin

BestIsWest · 19/04/2019 10:14

The votes cast in the 1992 election would have been even higher if my local council hadn’t privatised the assembling of the electoral register and left me off. I’ve never been so furious in my life. Only myself to blame apparently for not checking although I’d filled in all the forms and voted from the same address previously. (Still bitter).

LonelyTiredandLow · 19/04/2019 10:19

@Flower Fleabag got me through those dark HoC days Grin
Killing Eve is awesome too and written by the same lady.

I stopped doing YouGov because of the leading Q's. I do wonder how many remain voters they lost through frustration early on. Wishful thinking perhaps, but it may not be a hugely representative group.

wheresmymojo · 19/04/2019 10:36

I've been taking a little post-extension break from Brexit/politics but just popped on to read a thread about the murder in (London)Derry last night and shocked to see there isn't one (in my actives anyway) Shock

wheresmymojo · 19/04/2019 10:39

Well...I found one...10 posts. Surprised about the lack of interest TBH.

If it had happened on the mainland there would be a huge thread about it wouldn't there?

ContinuityError · 19/04/2019 10:42

The YouGov/Times poll gives a breakdown of the weighting data - ^YouGov weights GB political surveys by (1) age interlocked with gender and education, (2)
political attention (3) social grade (4) 2017 recalled vote interlocked with region and (5) EU referendum recalled vote. Weighting targets are YouGov estimates, data sources used in the calculation of targets are cited below. General election voting intention figures are additionally weighted by likelihood to vote.^

d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/y0zo9icxct/TheTimes_190411_VI_Trackers_bpc_w.pdf

Suspect the Brexit Party popularity will bounce around depending on how much Farage is in/on the news.

Still haven’t found a Brexit Party manifesto online - the website just seems to be touting for cash, free time in the way of volunteers and contact details.

What could possibly go wrong Wink

Ellie56 · 19/04/2019 10:42

20 years ago barely counts as history. Hmm

The OED defines history as

"the study of past events, particularly in human affairs."

the whole series of past events connected with a particular person or thing.

ContinuityError · 19/04/2019 10:45

If it had happened on the mainland there would be a huge thread about it wouldn't there?

DH’s family are in NI - during the Troubles so much went on that was never reported in the main UK press.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 19/04/2019 11:06

It's notable that some forms of terrorism get huge amounts of angry discussion and yet other forms get totally ignored. As a Catholic why am I not being called on to renounce the terrorist act yesterday? I do of course.

DGRossetti · 19/04/2019 11:09

Our history teacher had a maxim that if someone could remember it, then it wasn't history .... So studying WW1 and WW2 in the 80s had a distinctly personal edge, compared to Napoleons Russian campaign (for example).

Mistigri · 19/04/2019 11:46

Suspect the Brexit Party popularity will bounce around depending on how much Farage is in/on the news.

Suspect this is true.

I imagine it's quite hard to do traditional polling with a new, single issue party with no policies even on its "headline" issue.

Littlespaces · 19/04/2019 11:48

Full list of Labour candidates for EU Elections.

labour.org.uk/people/our-european-election-candidates/

Windowsareforcheaters · 19/04/2019 11:50

20 years ago barely counts as history

It's a historian joke not a serious comment.

Like saying we are still waiting to see what the consequences of the French
Revolution will be.

Mistigri · 19/04/2019 12:19

This is a link to a gofundme for the victim of the terrorist violence in NI last night. The second person to lose their life directly because of Brexit (the first being Jo Cox).

www.gofundme.com/f/in-memory-of-lyra-mckee

BigChocFrenzy · 19/04/2019 12:37

"past events" would include everything that happened yesterday

By convention, history is a lot longer in the past than that.

I was at school in the 1960s and gave up history after O Level in 1972
We didn't study WW2, just WW1, because WW2 was regarded as too recent to be "proper" history - so I was haughtily informed

We discussed WW2 in English, because the teacher liked us to debate current affairs topics

  • those were the days when teachers could choose to go way off syllabus, if they thought we would benefit
We discussed Bloody Sunday in those lessons - I still remember the utter shock and shame we all felt, the awkward silence before someone hesitantly began the debate
NoWordForFluffy · 19/04/2019 12:42

If anyone does Nectar surveys, there's a voting intention survey which gives you a 'no way!' option! Some of the questions didn't have enough options, but you could say you had an unfavourable opinion about parties and specific party leaders.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/04/2019 12:46

Lyra McKee, 29 - A remarkable woman, whose life was so full of promise, cut short by terrorist:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/apr/19/derry-police-blame-dissident-republicans-for-journalist-death-lyra-mckee

McKee became prominent after publishing a blogpost in 2014 called “Letter to My 14-year-old Self” in which she wrote about growing up gay in Belfast.
It was turned into a short film.

In 2016 Forbes magazine named her one of the “30 under 30 in media”,
citing her passion for digging into topics that others did not care about.

McKee went on to write a book, Angels With Blue Faces,
and also wrote for various publications, usually long, investigative pieces.
She recently signed a two-book deal with Faber & Faber.

Her last tweet on Thursday read: “Derry tonight. Absolute madness.”

BigChocFrenzy · 19/04/2019 12:53

Her "Letter to my 14-year-old self"

Compassionate writing to pass on to any teenage lesbian in the family

http://www.thepensivequill.com/2014/08/letter-to-my-14-year-old-self.html?m=0

Sad btl comment today:
And the last line will read "...and you will die at 29 doing the job you love."

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 19/04/2019 12:53

Awful news from NI. I'm lost for words on how terrible it is.

On a brighter note its nice to discover I've been alive forever and that because anything over 20 years doesn't count anymore we'll at least stop hearing leavers talking about Dunkirk spirit and the 'glory' of WW2. Oh no, that's not going to happen is it?

Icantreachthepretzels · 19/04/2019 13:23

I'm just horrified by what happened to poor Lyra McKee last night.
And I'm just so angry with the brexiteers for stoking that up. And I'm afraid that does include your average leaver in the street who hasn't changed their mind and still clings to brexit. Their political goal comes at the price of destroying peace in Northern Ireland. It comes at the price of the lives of innocent people. They either need to reassess both the worthiness and possibility of their goal - or accept the judgement and anger of people who are horrified that they think leaving a peaceful and stable trading bloc is more important than the hard won peace of Northern Ireland.

Actually, I'm beyond angry. I'm fucking disgusted with them. All of them.

RedToothBrush · 19/04/2019 13:30

Shit just read about Lyra McKee. It's only hit my twitter feed now. It didn't when I logged in briefly earlier. I only half glanced at thread earlier and didn't have chance to check what others were going on about before I went out.

Just showed DH and he was gobsmacked.

It is shocking how low this is on the news agenda today.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 19/04/2019 13:35

Is there really such voter volatility, or did YouGov use different methods in the 2 polls ?
Or is this just the +/-3% polling error showing up ?

My best guess is Brexit Party awareness is incredibly patchy and recent coverage in the last couple of days has alerted people to its existence.

Hence swings which are not 'normal'. Its an unusual set of circumstances where a new party has just 'appeared'

OP posts:
Mistigri · 19/04/2019 13:44

And I'm just so angry with the brexiteers for stoking that up. And I'm afraid that does include your average leaver in the street who hasn't changed their mind and still clings to brexit. Their political goal comes at the price of destroying peace in Northern Ireland. It comes at the price of the lives of innocent people.

Stirring up political agitators in Northern Ireland, and the use of racist, misogynist, violent rhetoric more generally, has been done in complete knowledge of the risks, but with complete disdain for the lives of the people affected.

So far, two people have died as a result. How many more?

Mistigri · 19/04/2019 13:48

Is there really such voter volatility, or did YouGov use different methods in the 2 polls ?
Or is this just the +/-3% polling error showing up ?

You have to think about the way poll samples are constructed. You don't just take 1000 random bods. You take 1000 random bods split into categories that (you hope) accurately represent the electorate, and you do this by doing things like checking how people voted last time, where they live, sex, age etc.

Chuck two new parties and volatile but strongly held opinions into the mix - and it's not an easy time to be a pollster.

Poll results are also highly sensitive to how you word them and what options you include.

If the error is only +/-3% at the moment then I sincerely take my researcher's hat off to those pollsters.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/04/2019 14:04

Remembering back to the early 1980s, when the SDP were formed:

They fought a number of byelections and then a GE;
to my recollection, the polls were reasonable predictions for them in specific contests

They had over 50% support at one time but this dropped sharply once they formed policies,
hence my assessment very early on that CHUK wouldn't do well - their "honeymoon" stage is at a far lower level and the SDP never did manage to break through even with that early high support.

However, Farage's party only has 1 policy, at least atm and it's all his voters are interested in.
So they'll probably vote for as long as Brexit has a chance
atm some form of Brexit remains the most likely outcome, whereas the chance of Revoke remains v low.