Not in my children's name

[drivinmecrazy]

I am getting increasingly angry with this whole issue.
My children were born into a world where they were allowed to dream beyond borders, they had no deal of Empire or even the commonwealth. They were children of an harmonious block of neighbouring allies.
Yet those of us of another generation are doing our utmost to take these opportunities away from them without any good reason.
How are my children's lives going to be improved by Brexit? How are their dreams going to be enhanced by shutting our borders and closing our minds?
As an adult I'm not convinced by the economic benefits we would gain, as a parent I'm certain my children will not benefit from living on a tiny island without favourable economic trading opportunities with our nearest neighbours, or without freedom of movevent of dreams.
I'm crying inside for the things our children may not forgive us for in the future.
My own children are 13 & 18. As you might expect my elder child is desperately hoping for a PV, as are most of her friends. My 13 year old wants to know why we consider ourselves so different to the rest of the EU.
Do you ever think about what is being taken from your children?
I know this is a rather emotive post but I am just so bloody angry on my DD's behalf.
We are not only responsible for the here and now, we need to think to the future generations

The leave voters weren’t duped either. The knew exactly what they were voting for.

The knew exactly what they were voting for

So they actually voted for this fiasco?

May's deal, it would seem

Windows - the shit storm we are in now has nothing to do with the fact we voted leave but has everything to do with TM, Ollie Robins et al and the dire way they have managed the last three years.
This all could have been handled so much better.

This all could have been handled so much better.

I think we could all agree to that. However, if the Leavers had managed or bothered to get one of their own candidates elected as PM they might have helped themselves. Whether it would have been better has to be debatable.

When you vote for a cause you look at the leaders and ask "who will implement this idea I am voting for?"

Leavers looked at BJ and Gove and thought they would do a good job and then they voted for the cause they espoused.

We got what they voted for.

Many, many Remainers predicted it would be a mess and it is.

Who knew Erasmus would be so controversial

Anyways, neither DH or I grew up middle class at all. I grew up on an estate and DH grew up in a not very nice bit of E London. Shock horror we both ended up at university, so yes I am upset about things that take away educational oppprtunities from ordinary WC teenagers.
It’s not just Erasmus, it’s the opportunity to get away from your home town and waitress/au pair etc for a summer and broaden your horizons. Not everyone can afford to fly to Australia (for a working holiday) but a lot more people can afford an EasyJet flight to Spain or Italy or France.

And I’ve never voted Conservative.

We need to worry about ourselves as much as our children. Without immigration we are all going to be laying in our own piss when we are old, and that's if we are lucky. I work in social care and I'm not exaggerating or being overly pessimistic about this sadly. There are already problems with recruitment and this will only get worse. There aren't enough young people to fill the posts - simple question of demographics. Everyone in authority is quite aware of this time bomb.

Because of this I don't believe immigration will be stemmed, even if the government says it will be. Can't actually run our society safely without it.

Fortunately my child is now old enough to vote - and looks forward to returning a pro-EU MEP in the EP elections and pro-EU in any future PV

The most bizarre thing that I've noticed since Brexit is the number of m/c people now devastated that their children might miss out on Erasmus

Didnt even know what erasmus was til it came up on mumsnet brexit threads

Im obviously middle classing wrong....though we got a free panini press the other day so im hoping this redeems us some what

This is why we have got our dc dual nationality ( another EU nation) via a loophole
They will still be able to work, travel and study like we did

When you vote for a cause you look at the leaders and ask "who will implement this idea I am voting for?"

One reason i voted remain

We need to worry about ourselves as much as our children. Without immigration we are all going to be laying in our own piss when we are old, and that's if we are lucky. I work in social care and I'm not exaggerating or being overly pessimistic about this sadly. There are already problems with recruitment and this will only get worse. There aren't enough young people to fill the posts - simple question of demographics. Everyone in authority is quite aware of this time bomb.

A big problem is crap pay, crap conditions and poor management. I know lots of people who work or have worked in care. It's a job largely done by people who don't have much else choice, I know people who have stayed because they care very deeply about their residents but they are all looking to leave now too. Most people I know who work in care homes would do anything to keep their own families out of them. This includes some very expensive private homes.

As a country we need to face up now to the long term issues around health and social care and start formulating a plan. Planning on ever increasing immigration to plug the gap is not a sustainable solution as at some point it will break down.

I agree with that KoraBora re: pay etc. But I didnt say immigration should be the only plan. It certainly needs to be part of the plan.

Planning on ever increasing immigration to plug the gap is not a sustainable solution as at some point it will break down.

Then you need people to have more babies. You need to reinstate child benefits for people who have more than 2 kids, give tax breaks for families, provide subsidised childcare, force employers to offer good maternity/paternity benefits etc.

In France benefits and tax breaks increase rapidly as you have more kids. People with 3+ children get all sorts of perks including subsidised travel along with very favourable treatment for tax and benefits purposes.

The problem regarding lack of recruitment for caring for the elderly is not because the population is struggling. The problem is that it is physically hard, emotionally awful, poorly paid and demands anti social hours.

The answer to that problem lying in encouraging people to have families that are not physically sustainable for them financially and relying on state benefits as such on the offchance one of their children will be female, will either perform poorly in school or will perform well but choose to do one of the worst jobs out there, is ridiculous.

I'm not suggesting that people have kids to look after them in later life. Care work has a high social value and while it's great if children want to look after their parents, it's also fine for society to pay someone a decent wage to do it.

The UK population is ageing: if you want to have a stable population of working age people, you need those people to have children - or you need immigration. Otherwise, the population will shrink and age, the economy will contract, and tax revenues will fall. If tax revenues fall, then one of the first things that will be cut is money for care work, because people in care homes often do not vote or pay tax.

Couldn't agree more with the OP. Angry and worried. My advice to anyone with kids in their teens or early 20s is to encourage them to study in the EU. Germany has already said that it will allow UK students at German universities to apply for citizenship when they graduate - they know a brain drain when they see one. Undoubtedly other EU countries will follow suit. Failing that, NI, which imo is likely to get special concessions regarding FOM or citizenship, or Scotland, which will probably go for indyref2 and rejoin. Or pursue careers where the possibility of working abroad can offer a back door out of the hellhole that will be post-Brexit Britain.

My advice to anyone with kids in their teens or early 20s is to encourage them to study in the EU

It wont be possible anymore though will it? My big idea was for my son to go somewhere like the Netherlands (or yes, Germany) where there are a lot of English language programmes and he could study there for less money - probably higher living costs but very low tuition fees. But that won't be possible if we don't stay in the EU or EEA. Or it will, but the tuition fees will be comparable to here, so no (financial) advantage and there will be all the hassle of study visas and no option to stay to work afterwards because there's no way you can show that a British citizen has a skill that cannot be offered by a single person from any of the other EEA countries.

No, no financial advantage, but, like I say, some of the EU countries are already saying that they'll let Brits stay. For me/my kids, the longer term goal is to get another EU citizenship so as to allow continued FOM. And also to get out of Britain, which will be a shitshow after Brexit imo.

it's also fine for society to pay someone a decent wage to do it

Considering what some care homes charge in fees I can't work out why they can't pay a decent wage? My ex, fair play to them, worked in a care home doing 12 hour shifts for 2.50/hour as an apprentice. They had no training whatsoever and their English speaking and written skills were weak. Care home fobbed them off for months saying they would receive the correct minimum wage later. Never happened so ex understandably quit. Care home soon found another unqualified apprentice!

The UK will most probably take part in the European elections on May 23rd, and will give your daughter a chance to make her voice heard.
MEPs are elected using a system of proportional representation, so her vote counts.

I haven’t read the whole thread which I nearly always do.
My son is studying biomedical science and his particular interest is pharmacology.
The European Medical Agency has moved to Holland and it won’t come back.
I genuinely do understand why some people voted to leave. However, I don’t understand why people still want to leave after all the facts that have come to light in the last 3 years.
I have said this before but the evidence says that, even if nobody changes their mind, there was a ‘tipping point’ in January where the majority of people would vote to remain due to demographics ie quite a lot of older people, who mostly voted to leave, have passed away and about a million people, like my son, who was too young to vote, have now become old enough to vote and the vast majority of them (opinion polls estimate that about 90% of 18-21 year olds would vote to remain).
And they are the ones who will suffer the most from this pile of shit.
There has to be some kind of ‘sell by date’ for a vote.
Right now, people who have died since the referendum are being given more weight attached to their vote than 18-21 year olds who weren’t old enough to vote but are the ones whose future is going to be destroyed.
I try to have ‘Brexit free days’ when I try not to think about it because it makes me so angry.
I have high blood pressure and it goes up to quite dangerous levels when I think about Brexit too much.
My son has worked his arse off. He got 3 A*s in his A levels.
I alternate between feeling incandescent with rage and this awful sadness for my children’s future.
If I bumped into Nigel Fromage, I would not be responsible for my actions.
I remember watching his ‘victory speech’ when he said that they had won without a single bullet being fired and just hoping to God that Jo Cox’s parents weren’t watching.
Fucking cunt. It’s ironic that his children all have German passports.

I would suggest about 5 years for a 'sell by' date. If that's good enough for General Elections, I can't see why it's not good enough for an advisory Referendum.

You could always spill your milkshake on Fromage.....

I worked in Pharmaceuticals for many years and am a leaver who hasn't died yet!
As for your son there will be loads of opportunities post Brexit within the UK as of course we will need our own agency to licence drugs and devices.
As for as the idea that old people voted leave thus the balance of the result has now changed. You have also got to bare in mind that people tend to become more 'conservative' in their thinking as they get older so many 'middle aged' people may also have changed their thinking.