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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Schlong Extension

971 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2019 13:18

If Macron gets his way we have less than a week. And he seems pretty gung ho - convincing Spain and Belgium, when his veto, alone, would be enough

^Everyone talking about the flextensionschlong extension needs to listen to Macron. If he has his way - it's not happening.
Icantreachthepretzels

What has Macron actually said though and what does he actually believe in?

Just after the first extension was given, Macron said that if nothing changed before the 12th that DID NOT necessarily mean no deal ON the 12th itself. He said it could be on a day of the EU's choosing. It was a hint at a stay of execution at least.

In the last 24 hours or so, the noises have been that France favours no deal but wants two weeks for the markets to prepare. That's consistent with Macron's previous comments.

So I think it's fairly reasonable to take this as your baseline minimum. That would put us exiting on around 26th. I don't think we can refuse this minimum simply because we need every possible day we can get.

Indeed Macron apparently said at the last EU summit that he was in favour of an unconditional offer to stay in until 7th May but Merkel disagree not wanting us to exit the day before the EU's day of unity (9th).

So I think its reasonable that staying in until the 7th is very possible, but if Merkel is unhappy for symbolic reasons I think shift to the following week would be a reasonable compromise to Macron. Or it could make the 26th more likely.

Now the question is just how wedded Macron is to a Hardline approach? We know its Tusk and Merkel pushing Flextension because they lived in Eastern Europe at they have personal reasons over it. We know that Merkel only ever raised her voice to Cameron once over a conversation involving putting up borders with free movement. It's her big thing. And for Macron domestically he's made loud noises about the UK going sooner rather than later. He did a big uturn on his initial comments in agreeing to the 12th / 22nd. So there is something of a collision course here one way or another. Someone has to back down. Who will it be?

My suspicion is that privately whilst Macron knows he has to be tough and favours a sharp exit for domestic reasons he also respects Merkel. How he values his relationship with Merkel might be a big consideration as to how far he is prepared to compromise as well as how many others share France's reservations. I think it notable that whilst France has the power of veto, it seems to be trying to get the support of some of the other 26 too. I think it unlikely France would go for a veto if it were in a minority of one simply because that wouldn't be great for EU unity if others think it a high risk to go for only a short extension. So how easy it is to change the minds of others is perhaps more important than France’s position alone. Whilst throwing his weight around might look attractive and tempting to getting a more French centred leading of the EU post Merkel and whilst he might want to crack on with a much more integrated EU, he's not going to starting from a good place if France is resented for its hardline over Brexit. I'd argue that realistically France needs to work with the other 26 to get any reforms and leadership it wants.

Thus any concessions given won't be because Macron has sympathy for the UK, but because it suits his long term agenda in the EU.

Its worth remembering the conclusions of the last summit, in this context, were also of the opinion that we were more or less incapable of looking after ourselves and almost a failed state that needed baby sitting. They clearly think May is incapable. They may well favour a long extension purely on this basis to let Tories, Tory because no deal and a government collapse at the same time might be something they consider to be exceptionally bad and destabilising. And therefore pose something of a security risk to the EU. (France would, perhaps, be most exposed to this in theory). Indeed Alberto Nardelli of BuzzFeed reported yesterday that many felt a short extension was very risky to the EU. That suggests Macron is somewhat on the back foot.

There is also the observation that transition under the WA isn't a whole lot different to an extension. The real only stumbling block is the EP. The term Flextension really only hides this. And No Deal will merely lead to the WA at some point

No Deal just has a dangerous chaos section in the middle.

The French are certainly not convinced of a long extension though (and Tusk has acknowledged this in his push for a long extension. He is taking the French position seriously and is seeking to persuade rather than dismissing as posturing). On the other hand, its also taken seriously by hardline Tories looking to drive a wedge. Jacob Rees-Mogg's tweet about being obstructive in the EU parliament was very firmly aimed at influencing Macron. Arguably this might well have the opposite affect as it goes, as Macron will be smart enough to see it for what it is.

The other consideration in all this is the make up of the European Parliament itself. There are 14 countries who get extra seats. I can't find the full list, but here's nine of them: Denmark, Croatia, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Ireland, Italy, France and Spain. Having more seats is an important thing. And might be influential on what happens.

In Ireland's case it's particularly difficult. Unlike the UK it DOES NOT have a list system.

Peter Foster @pmdfoster
I understand Ireland is a tricky case, because it doesn't have list system.

This means you can't elect four MEPs and then choose top 3 until UK leaves and IE takes fourth seat...becuase if you ran only a 3-seat election you would get different top 3, than if ran 4-seat

Schlong extension with guillotine is something of a practical issue that needs clarification for the Irish; it's not really viable if we aren't committed to staying in for a fixed amount of time, whatever that might be. Exiting at our time of choosing or just having elections and then never taking our seats it's going to stick. I can't see how it will. So that's the exit on 30th June ruled out. Our exit will be something the EU will want to control the date of in some way, even if there is a 'guillotine clause'.

Nick Gutteridge (Sun) thinks a long extension is the most likely option on the balance of probabilities. Peter Foster (Telegraph) is slightly more doubtful and hestitant after hearing the French line. Prior to this he stated: “No deal” risk receded (for now) soon as May indicated Monday night she was open to ‘flextension’ and EU elex. Alberto Nardelli (BuzzFeed) and Katya Adler (BBC) seem to be of a similar mind set to Foster. Gutteridge and Foster have generally been more reliable than British journalists.

The big but to all this is whether May triggers EP elections in the Privy Council before the summit to signal her commitment. If she fails to do it, thinking she can do it after the summit, she won't be taken seriously and I think there is real danger it will revert to the French line.

If nothing else, if I had £100 to bet on whether we are still in the EU next Saturday, I think I'd have to put it on yes we will be. I may be wrong, but despite EU anger and frustration there isn't much to suggest a hard and fast guillotine on the 12th itself.

Will May and the ERG except a long extension? May sounds like she already has. But this is May, and until she takes action, she can't be trusted. Gove is quoted as saying: “It does not matter what the length of the extension that may be offered is. It ends at the point we are out” which seems to be a considered moderate response. Mogg's comments read as a belligerent acceptance of a long extension rather than a total rejection of the idea completely.

So I think if we are offered a long extension, we'll go through all the usual Peter Griffin impersonations and Boris Johnson huffing and puffing that it's a bad thing but it will be sucked up.

Then theres the question of May. She said she'd stay until the next phase. But a date of the 22nd May was also touted. That's probably more what Brexiteers will have their eyes on, than an extension which they will tolerate. It gives them longer to prep for no deal after all. And that ultimately might not be against the interests of the EU either. It just continues the transfer of business to the EU after all.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 06/04/2019 13:19

Thanks red

can't believe you went there with the title Grin

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2019 13:23

The title seems very apt and I'm always up for suggestions (I can blame all of you who suggested it too anyway!)

OP posts:
67chevvyimpala · 06/04/2019 13:24

Pmk

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 06/04/2019 13:24

No, it's very funny and god knows we need a laugh right now Grin

Horehound · 06/04/2019 13:26

Pmk

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 06/04/2019 13:31

PMK. Thanks Red

bellinisurge · 06/04/2019 13:31

I can't remember if the mood is currently omifuckingod or couldbeworse or headdownhereitcomes. Thanks Red

magimedi · 06/04/2019 13:33

PMK & Flowers red.

GeistohneGrenzen · 06/04/2019 13:33

pmk

TalkinPaece · 06/04/2019 13:35

Happy little Englanders www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47833702

My blue passport has that nice eagle on it.
I'm not looking forward to having two blue ones.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2019 13:36

Thanks, red 💐
especially with everything else you are coping with atm

(I suggested the title; I don't know if other crude Westministenders did as well !)

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2019 13:38

My main hope for some time has been that since the EU already has an unstable failed nuclear state outside its Eastern borders,
it won't want another at its Western borders 😱

IrenetheQuaint · 06/04/2019 13:39

"So I think its reasonable that staying in until the 7th is very possible, but if Merkel is unhappy for symbolic reasons I think shift to the following week would be a reasonable compromise to Macron. Or it could make the 26th more likely."

You may well be right, but God, these short extensions are hell on the nerves! And dreadful for business, of course.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2019 13:42

A further 2-week extension is very likely, to let the financial markets prepare for No Deal

May could even use this for a last gasp attempt at a deal with Corbyn and / or getting her WA through

IsFuzzyBeagMise · 06/04/2019 13:43

Thank you for these threads FlowersBrewCakeWine

OhYouBadBadKitten · 06/04/2019 13:46

pmk

OhYouBadBadKitten · 06/04/2019 13:47

How would markets prepare for No Deal?

Ellie56 · 06/04/2019 13:48

I can't believe what a God forsaken mess this is.

So after the Maybot has seemingly given up trying to browbeat the Brexiteers into accepting her crap deal, she then makes a grand announcement that she's going to talk to the Labour party to see if they can reach some compromise, sending the ERG into apoplectic fits.

After three days of "talks" it appears that her idea of a compromise is trying to browbeat the Labour party into accepting her crap deal. Hmm

What next?

woodpigeons · 06/04/2019 13:49

Maybe this has been covered previously but if we get an extension do people think May will resign as soon as a deal is passed and before we actually leave ?
That seems quite dangerous to me as a Brexiteer PM could surely overturn everything agreed.

DarlingNikita · 06/04/2019 13:51

Thanks Red.

'Schlong'

TheNorthWestPawsage · 06/04/2019 13:54

pmk

Westminstenders: The Schlong Extension
usuallydormant · 06/04/2019 13:55

I don’t think it’s just Macron: my Irish family and friends are also think Tusk is being far too generous. The U.K. is just taking the piss at the stage, it ignores every bit of advice and refuses to accept any deadline. What is an extension going to achieve? Why would we want the U.K. to play at taking part in elections for a Parliment they don’t want to be in? Your country is split and I can’t see a majority going for anything in the short term. Millions of people all over Europe can’t plan for the future, business is on hold, money is being wasted and no respect whatsoever is being given to the difficulties faced by the EU27.Time must be called. A year extension where the U.K. can unilaterally flounce? After May refuses to submit a credible plan? And uncertain if a PV would go in favor of remaining? No way.

The U.K. govt cannot be trusted. I think the big question for the EU is: will the U.K. be more dangerous inside the EU or out. I think Red’s suggestion of 26th sounds plausible (plus all the French students on an Easter school tour in the uK will be back home by then....).

tobee · 06/04/2019 13:56

Thanks Red.

Going to scroll up to read your op now. Pretty impressive that you keep doing them almost every day now!

IrenetheQuaint · 06/04/2019 13:58

I don't really understand the markets preparing for no deal thing either. The EU claim they're ready for no deal and the civil service will be activating its no deal plans on Monday. If we're going to do it, I'm not sure another couple of weeks will make any difference.

Shmoople · 06/04/2019 14:00

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