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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Schlong Extension

971 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2019 13:18

If Macron gets his way we have less than a week. And he seems pretty gung ho - convincing Spain and Belgium, when his veto, alone, would be enough

^Everyone talking about the flextensionschlong extension needs to listen to Macron. If he has his way - it's not happening.
Icantreachthepretzels

What has Macron actually said though and what does he actually believe in?

Just after the first extension was given, Macron said that if nothing changed before the 12th that DID NOT necessarily mean no deal ON the 12th itself. He said it could be on a day of the EU's choosing. It was a hint at a stay of execution at least.

In the last 24 hours or so, the noises have been that France favours no deal but wants two weeks for the markets to prepare. That's consistent with Macron's previous comments.

So I think it's fairly reasonable to take this as your baseline minimum. That would put us exiting on around 26th. I don't think we can refuse this minimum simply because we need every possible day we can get.

Indeed Macron apparently said at the last EU summit that he was in favour of an unconditional offer to stay in until 7th May but Merkel disagree not wanting us to exit the day before the EU's day of unity (9th).

So I think its reasonable that staying in until the 7th is very possible, but if Merkel is unhappy for symbolic reasons I think shift to the following week would be a reasonable compromise to Macron. Or it could make the 26th more likely.

Now the question is just how wedded Macron is to a Hardline approach? We know its Tusk and Merkel pushing Flextension because they lived in Eastern Europe at they have personal reasons over it. We know that Merkel only ever raised her voice to Cameron once over a conversation involving putting up borders with free movement. It's her big thing. And for Macron domestically he's made loud noises about the UK going sooner rather than later. He did a big uturn on his initial comments in agreeing to the 12th / 22nd. So there is something of a collision course here one way or another. Someone has to back down. Who will it be?

My suspicion is that privately whilst Macron knows he has to be tough and favours a sharp exit for domestic reasons he also respects Merkel. How he values his relationship with Merkel might be a big consideration as to how far he is prepared to compromise as well as how many others share France's reservations. I think it notable that whilst France has the power of veto, it seems to be trying to get the support of some of the other 26 too. I think it unlikely France would go for a veto if it were in a minority of one simply because that wouldn't be great for EU unity if others think it a high risk to go for only a short extension. So how easy it is to change the minds of others is perhaps more important than France’s position alone. Whilst throwing his weight around might look attractive and tempting to getting a more French centred leading of the EU post Merkel and whilst he might want to crack on with a much more integrated EU, he's not going to starting from a good place if France is resented for its hardline over Brexit. I'd argue that realistically France needs to work with the other 26 to get any reforms and leadership it wants.

Thus any concessions given won't be because Macron has sympathy for the UK, but because it suits his long term agenda in the EU.

Its worth remembering the conclusions of the last summit, in this context, were also of the opinion that we were more or less incapable of looking after ourselves and almost a failed state that needed baby sitting. They clearly think May is incapable. They may well favour a long extension purely on this basis to let Tories, Tory because no deal and a government collapse at the same time might be something they consider to be exceptionally bad and destabilising. And therefore pose something of a security risk to the EU. (France would, perhaps, be most exposed to this in theory). Indeed Alberto Nardelli of BuzzFeed reported yesterday that many felt a short extension was very risky to the EU. That suggests Macron is somewhat on the back foot.

There is also the observation that transition under the WA isn't a whole lot different to an extension. The real only stumbling block is the EP. The term Flextension really only hides this. And No Deal will merely lead to the WA at some point

No Deal just has a dangerous chaos section in the middle.

The French are certainly not convinced of a long extension though (and Tusk has acknowledged this in his push for a long extension. He is taking the French position seriously and is seeking to persuade rather than dismissing as posturing). On the other hand, its also taken seriously by hardline Tories looking to drive a wedge. Jacob Rees-Mogg's tweet about being obstructive in the EU parliament was very firmly aimed at influencing Macron. Arguably this might well have the opposite affect as it goes, as Macron will be smart enough to see it for what it is.

The other consideration in all this is the make up of the European Parliament itself. There are 14 countries who get extra seats. I can't find the full list, but here's nine of them: Denmark, Croatia, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Ireland, Italy, France and Spain. Having more seats is an important thing. And might be influential on what happens.

In Ireland's case it's particularly difficult. Unlike the UK it DOES NOT have a list system.

Peter Foster @pmdfoster
I understand Ireland is a tricky case, because it doesn't have list system.

This means you can't elect four MEPs and then choose top 3 until UK leaves and IE takes fourth seat...becuase if you ran only a 3-seat election you would get different top 3, than if ran 4-seat

Schlong extension with guillotine is something of a practical issue that needs clarification for the Irish; it's not really viable if we aren't committed to staying in for a fixed amount of time, whatever that might be. Exiting at our time of choosing or just having elections and then never taking our seats it's going to stick. I can't see how it will. So that's the exit on 30th June ruled out. Our exit will be something the EU will want to control the date of in some way, even if there is a 'guillotine clause'.

Nick Gutteridge (Sun) thinks a long extension is the most likely option on the balance of probabilities. Peter Foster (Telegraph) is slightly more doubtful and hestitant after hearing the French line. Prior to this he stated: “No deal” risk receded (for now) soon as May indicated Monday night she was open to ‘flextension’ and EU elex. Alberto Nardelli (BuzzFeed) and Katya Adler (BBC) seem to be of a similar mind set to Foster. Gutteridge and Foster have generally been more reliable than British journalists.

The big but to all this is whether May triggers EP elections in the Privy Council before the summit to signal her commitment. If she fails to do it, thinking she can do it after the summit, she won't be taken seriously and I think there is real danger it will revert to the French line.

If nothing else, if I had £100 to bet on whether we are still in the EU next Saturday, I think I'd have to put it on yes we will be. I may be wrong, but despite EU anger and frustration there isn't much to suggest a hard and fast guillotine on the 12th itself.

Will May and the ERG except a long extension? May sounds like she already has. But this is May, and until she takes action, she can't be trusted. Gove is quoted as saying: “It does not matter what the length of the extension that may be offered is. It ends at the point we are out” which seems to be a considered moderate response. Mogg's comments read as a belligerent acceptance of a long extension rather than a total rejection of the idea completely.

So I think if we are offered a long extension, we'll go through all the usual Peter Griffin impersonations and Boris Johnson huffing and puffing that it's a bad thing but it will be sucked up.

Then theres the question of May. She said she'd stay until the next phase. But a date of the 22nd May was also touted. That's probably more what Brexiteers will have their eyes on, than an extension which they will tolerate. It gives them longer to prep for no deal after all. And that ultimately might not be against the interests of the EU either. It just continues the transfer of business to the EU after all.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
borntobequiet · 06/04/2019 17:15

Rain inside Parliament might become a tradition, like it used to be at Wimbledon. Perhaps Cliff Richard could lead a sing song from the press gallery.

howabout · 06/04/2019 17:16

I didn't expect you to agree with LE Bigchoc Brew

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2019 17:17

"Varadkar will do anything to avoid having to protect the SM"

which would be very useful if an extension just needed a few votes or even QMV

Our problem is that we need all 27 votes.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2019 17:18

Elliot always seems to me to be a champagne socialist determined to pretend he isn't 🍫

woman19 · 06/04/2019 17:20

@davidallengreen

This is @Geoffrey_Cox today on Brexit.

Using exactly the same phrases some of used three years ago, as warnings.

But we got called "moaning remainers" instead.

They should have listened.

“I just feel we have under-estimated its complexity. We are unpicking 45 years of in-depth integration. This needed to be done with very great care, in a phased and graduated way. It needs a hard-headed understanding of realities”

Link is BBC with Schlong who also pretentiously quoting TSEliot, I can't bear to put either up.

Nebbish nudnik. Angry

howabout · 06/04/2019 17:22

See that's how I see Paul Mason Grin

AuldAlliance · 06/04/2019 17:24

Response to Elliott's article here:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/05/global-britain-own-trade-deals-mirage

Mistigri · 06/04/2019 17:25

I just feel we have under-estimated its complexity. We are unpicking 45 years of in-depth integration. This needed to be done with very great care, in a phased and graduated way. It needs a hard-headed understanding of realities

Did Cox really say that? That's hilarious.

He's a fucking lawyer and he wants us to think he only just noticed? Gawd help us.

DadDadDad · 06/04/2019 17:26

@borntobequiet

I'm just imagining the nation singing along to Cliff Richard in years to come:

We're all going on a summer's holiday
No more working for a week or two (or in fact at all as our industry collapsed when we left the single market)
Tears and recrimination on our summer holiday
Lot more tariffs for me and you,
For a decade or two.

We're going where the sun shines intermittently
We're not going to the EU (due to visa restrictions)
We'll only see it in the movies,
But at least our passport's blue.

TalkinPaece · 06/04/2019 17:30

Much as I wish Corbyn would get off his allotment and talk to May over the weekend
I think the Civil Servants need a couple of days off
it looks like the Easter Recess has been cancelled - which buggers up the school holiday plans of thousands of civil servant families (many of whom must be utterly exasperated by their elected masters)

TBH an extension to the end of April would suit me just fine ....
I'd get my birthday as an EU citizen
I'd be able to book my swift family holiday
and DD would be able to get back to mainland Europe without customs hassle.

but I cannot see why the EU would grant it as its just more "can kicking"

from the EU's point of view, having no deal Brexit start to bite in the run up to the Local Council elections on 2nd May
might just focus a few minds in Westminster

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2019 17:30

Zuleeg is very close to Brussels (although his European Policy Centre is independent)

He's been warning since before the last summit that a long extension is not in EU interests - unless there is a real UK plan that would be passed with a good majority in Parliament

Tusk, also Varadkar & Merkel are our greatest advocates,
but I gather that Brussels - Juncker, Barnier & co - have given up on the UK getting a grip

Tusk, imo, is the only one of the 3 supporting us primarily because of genuine friendship for the UK and regard for remainers, rather than his own country's interests

howabout · 06/04/2019 17:31

Geoffrey Cox pondering a career recording audio books. I used to do this on a voluntary basis for RNIB (as did my Dad). They are always looking for volunteers who can describe mathematical and scientific material accurately.

Macavity is, perhaps unsurprisingly, my favourite TS Eliot character - my Gran was want to describe me affectionately (I think) as a fiend in human shape. Grin

Littlespaces · 06/04/2019 17:32

That Guardian article about how the rest of the world views Brexit - why oh why can the powers that be not see it? Just cancel the fucking thing and take the civil unrest or whatever on the chin.

They care more about their Party and careers.

Peregrina · 06/04/2019 17:33

A bit of Larry Elliott to counter all the doom and gloom
Larry Elliot is the Guardian's Leaver. As always, he tells you what is wrong with things, not how they can be put right.

For example he says:
In spite of all the barriers, Britain runs surpluses in services, both to the EU and the rest of the world, because it is good at banking, insurance, law, architecture and consultancy.

So how does losing the European Banking Agency help that? How is losing the ability for UK Insurance firms to trade in EU countries helping? How is stopping Freedom of Movement helping our architects and consultants to go and work in the EU?

Please start telling us that Larry - you have had the better part of three years to come up with some answers. We are still waiting.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2019 17:34

TiP The UK in No Deal economic meltdown would be a useful reminder in the weeks beore EP elections of how populist policies totally screw up a country

That's in contrast to a long extension, with the populist candidates - and later the MEPs - rehashing Boris's whinge that the EU has trapped the UK and won't let it leave

TalkinPaece · 06/04/2019 17:37

The UK in No Deal economic meltdown would be a useful reminder in the weeks before EP elections of how populist policies totally screw up a country
Very true.
Making an example out of our spectacle might have positive long term outcomes

borntobequiet · 06/04/2019 17:39

D^3 Grin
Ha! I feel more parodies coming on!

Brexit-time
Good British wine (!)
Children singing Brexitty rhyme
With no logs for the fire (fuel shortages)
No gifts on the tree (no jobs, no money)
A time of despair and mis-is-er-y (obv)

OogieMcBoogie · 06/04/2019 17:46

Gee thanks Born Confused Now I have just the one line in my head which is ‘a time for hating and fighting to police

Tonsilss · 06/04/2019 17:48

I don't think the Powers that Be deign to read The Guardian. Just stay in their bubble.

borntobequiet · 06/04/2019 17:49

Actually really sorry for that parody on a number of levels.

DadDadDad · 06/04/2019 17:49

born Grin but Angry for the Cliff earworm.

HazardGhost · 06/04/2019 17:52

born 😂 and also Angry thanks for that Grin

TalkinPaece · 06/04/2019 17:53

Oh FFS its in my head now

woman19 · 06/04/2019 17:54

born Grin

NoWordForFluffy · 06/04/2019 17:58

Thanks, Red. Great title!

PMK with a cat because I can today (we're cat-sitting for another Mumsnetter, so it's her family's cat, currently training us to do his bidding! 😂).

Westminstenders: The Schlong Extension