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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Schlong Extension

971 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2019 13:18

If Macron gets his way we have less than a week. And he seems pretty gung ho - convincing Spain and Belgium, when his veto, alone, would be enough

^Everyone talking about the flextensionschlong extension needs to listen to Macron. If he has his way - it's not happening.
Icantreachthepretzels

What has Macron actually said though and what does he actually believe in?

Just after the first extension was given, Macron said that if nothing changed before the 12th that DID NOT necessarily mean no deal ON the 12th itself. He said it could be on a day of the EU's choosing. It was a hint at a stay of execution at least.

In the last 24 hours or so, the noises have been that France favours no deal but wants two weeks for the markets to prepare. That's consistent with Macron's previous comments.

So I think it's fairly reasonable to take this as your baseline minimum. That would put us exiting on around 26th. I don't think we can refuse this minimum simply because we need every possible day we can get.

Indeed Macron apparently said at the last EU summit that he was in favour of an unconditional offer to stay in until 7th May but Merkel disagree not wanting us to exit the day before the EU's day of unity (9th).

So I think its reasonable that staying in until the 7th is very possible, but if Merkel is unhappy for symbolic reasons I think shift to the following week would be a reasonable compromise to Macron. Or it could make the 26th more likely.

Now the question is just how wedded Macron is to a Hardline approach? We know its Tusk and Merkel pushing Flextension because they lived in Eastern Europe at they have personal reasons over it. We know that Merkel only ever raised her voice to Cameron once over a conversation involving putting up borders with free movement. It's her big thing. And for Macron domestically he's made loud noises about the UK going sooner rather than later. He did a big uturn on his initial comments in agreeing to the 12th / 22nd. So there is something of a collision course here one way or another. Someone has to back down. Who will it be?

My suspicion is that privately whilst Macron knows he has to be tough and favours a sharp exit for domestic reasons he also respects Merkel. How he values his relationship with Merkel might be a big consideration as to how far he is prepared to compromise as well as how many others share France's reservations. I think it notable that whilst France has the power of veto, it seems to be trying to get the support of some of the other 26 too. I think it unlikely France would go for a veto if it were in a minority of one simply because that wouldn't be great for EU unity if others think it a high risk to go for only a short extension. So how easy it is to change the minds of others is perhaps more important than France’s position alone. Whilst throwing his weight around might look attractive and tempting to getting a more French centred leading of the EU post Merkel and whilst he might want to crack on with a much more integrated EU, he's not going to starting from a good place if France is resented for its hardline over Brexit. I'd argue that realistically France needs to work with the other 26 to get any reforms and leadership it wants.

Thus any concessions given won't be because Macron has sympathy for the UK, but because it suits his long term agenda in the EU.

Its worth remembering the conclusions of the last summit, in this context, were also of the opinion that we were more or less incapable of looking after ourselves and almost a failed state that needed baby sitting. They clearly think May is incapable. They may well favour a long extension purely on this basis to let Tories, Tory because no deal and a government collapse at the same time might be something they consider to be exceptionally bad and destabilising. And therefore pose something of a security risk to the EU. (France would, perhaps, be most exposed to this in theory). Indeed Alberto Nardelli of BuzzFeed reported yesterday that many felt a short extension was very risky to the EU. That suggests Macron is somewhat on the back foot.

There is also the observation that transition under the WA isn't a whole lot different to an extension. The real only stumbling block is the EP. The term Flextension really only hides this. And No Deal will merely lead to the WA at some point

No Deal just has a dangerous chaos section in the middle.

The French are certainly not convinced of a long extension though (and Tusk has acknowledged this in his push for a long extension. He is taking the French position seriously and is seeking to persuade rather than dismissing as posturing). On the other hand, its also taken seriously by hardline Tories looking to drive a wedge. Jacob Rees-Mogg's tweet about being obstructive in the EU parliament was very firmly aimed at influencing Macron. Arguably this might well have the opposite affect as it goes, as Macron will be smart enough to see it for what it is.

The other consideration in all this is the make up of the European Parliament itself. There are 14 countries who get extra seats. I can't find the full list, but here's nine of them: Denmark, Croatia, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Ireland, Italy, France and Spain. Having more seats is an important thing. And might be influential on what happens.

In Ireland's case it's particularly difficult. Unlike the UK it DOES NOT have a list system.

Peter Foster @pmdfoster
I understand Ireland is a tricky case, because it doesn't have list system.

This means you can't elect four MEPs and then choose top 3 until UK leaves and IE takes fourth seat...becuase if you ran only a 3-seat election you would get different top 3, than if ran 4-seat

Schlong extension with guillotine is something of a practical issue that needs clarification for the Irish; it's not really viable if we aren't committed to staying in for a fixed amount of time, whatever that might be. Exiting at our time of choosing or just having elections and then never taking our seats it's going to stick. I can't see how it will. So that's the exit on 30th June ruled out. Our exit will be something the EU will want to control the date of in some way, even if there is a 'guillotine clause'.

Nick Gutteridge (Sun) thinks a long extension is the most likely option on the balance of probabilities. Peter Foster (Telegraph) is slightly more doubtful and hestitant after hearing the French line. Prior to this he stated: “No deal” risk receded (for now) soon as May indicated Monday night she was open to ‘flextension’ and EU elex. Alberto Nardelli (BuzzFeed) and Katya Adler (BBC) seem to be of a similar mind set to Foster. Gutteridge and Foster have generally been more reliable than British journalists.

The big but to all this is whether May triggers EP elections in the Privy Council before the summit to signal her commitment. If she fails to do it, thinking she can do it after the summit, she won't be taken seriously and I think there is real danger it will revert to the French line.

If nothing else, if I had £100 to bet on whether we are still in the EU next Saturday, I think I'd have to put it on yes we will be. I may be wrong, but despite EU anger and frustration there isn't much to suggest a hard and fast guillotine on the 12th itself.

Will May and the ERG except a long extension? May sounds like she already has. But this is May, and until she takes action, she can't be trusted. Gove is quoted as saying: “It does not matter what the length of the extension that may be offered is. It ends at the point we are out” which seems to be a considered moderate response. Mogg's comments read as a belligerent acceptance of a long extension rather than a total rejection of the idea completely.

So I think if we are offered a long extension, we'll go through all the usual Peter Griffin impersonations and Boris Johnson huffing and puffing that it's a bad thing but it will be sucked up.

Then theres the question of May. She said she'd stay until the next phase. But a date of the 22nd May was also touted. That's probably more what Brexiteers will have their eyes on, than an extension which they will tolerate. It gives them longer to prep for no deal after all. And that ultimately might not be against the interests of the EU either. It just continues the transfer of business to the EU after all.

OP posts:
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HazardGhost · 06/04/2019 15:22

Ta red

Just about to do a food shop delivery. To forward purchase or not to forward purchase that is the question? (What's on offer and what isn't on offer that is the question? Bargains means bargains someone shut me up please ) We ate a lot of what i had stockpiled during the extension...Don't have the space to stockpile indefinitely.

Also if anyone knows anything about refridgerated medicines from the US in a no deal brexit let me know please. I.e. do we currently get meds from the US direct or is it sent to one EU member then distributed out across Europe?

As predicted DP is likely to have a med adjustment during brexit also reached a new frontier it's a med being used off licence so we're paying for it. Don't ask how much it is but if it's a permanent thing I'll be selling a kidney 😂

HazardGhost · 06/04/2019 15:24

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3552539-Madigans-latest-campaign#prettyPhoto

This true do we know?

MissMalice · 06/04/2019 15:25

PMK.

We have a sort of rolling stockpile now. If we left with no deal tomorrow, I think I can my family for a month without having to shop. Whenever we eat anything, we replace it again.

UtterlyPerfectCartoonGiraffe · 06/04/2019 15:26

www.globaltimes.cn/content/1144576.shtml

“China’s Belt and Road initiative can help bond Britain’s economic Brexit wounds”

As someone commented on Twitter re this article, “I for one welcome our Chinese overlords.” Grin

Horehound · 06/04/2019 15:27

Yeh so if we go to No deal we still need the WA?

MockerstheFeManist · 06/04/2019 15:28

“I for one welcome our Chinese overlords.”

Maybe they have some Opium they want to sell us?

(What goes around comes around)

Icantreachthepretzels · 06/04/2019 15:29

Happy Birthday Pretty

I hope we don't end up with a two week extension to the 26th April - the 27th is my birthday! What a way to start a new year. It would nice to still be an EU citizen on my birthday - I didn't expect to be, but having it taken away an hour before midnight the day before seems very cruel.

When someone (sorry, I can't remember who) said they were glad that brexit hadn't happened on the 29th because it meant it didn't coincide with their birthday - but now it would just be someone else that took that hit - I knew it would be mine. If my usual luck is anything to go by, you can probably set the 26th in stone.

Littlespaces · 06/04/2019 15:31

www.rte.ie/news/2019/0406/1041073-varadkar-brexit-veto/

I really hope this is true. Whatever you voted, we need time to get our act together as a country.

Loletta · 06/04/2019 15:32

Another couple of weeks in would be just enough for my Easter break in Paris. A small consolation.

havingtochangeusernameagain · 06/04/2019 15:40

littlespaces me too.

A year would suit me just fine (though I don't really want another cliff edge at Hungry Gap time of year).

Justanothermile · 06/04/2019 15:41

PMK. Many thanks for a new thread.

havingtochangeusernameagain · 06/04/2019 15:41

loletta yes it would at least be after the Easter holidays have finished (in my part of England, not sure about dates elsewhere) (and would give me a chance to take a stockpile to my mother over Easter).

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2019 15:46

horehound Yes, No Deal isn't a reset button - many Brits wrongly assume it is.

Before the EU would agree to start negotiations (on even the emergency mini-deal the Brexiters want)
they say we'd have to sign up to the backstop, exit bill & permanent expat rights

  • probably just approve the current WA, but renamed
BlackeyedGruesome · 06/04/2019 15:48

Thanks. Basing my shopping on these threads. Reading through it seems it is worth finishing the final purchases. Most of the food bought we eat anyway. Some is useful for general difficult times due to various disabilities here. A tiny proportion is extra and will be a treat. Some is just in case. Thankfully very little money wise and worth it for the reduction in stress.

RussellSprout · 06/04/2019 15:49

Does anyone know why there are no planned talks between May and Corbyn this weekend, and the HOC are not doing anything brexity on Monday?

I know everyone needs a rest from work, and I'm sure May is more than a bit knackered but c'mon the country is at stake here!

If there was some big crisis at work a lot of people would expect to have to work over the weekend, if they were senior enough... so why not our dear leaders?

howabout · 06/04/2019 15:59

I also think we are heading for Revoke jasjas

Historically it has been Eurosceptics who have bothered to vote in EU elections - hence NF and his merry band of MEPs. Would be interesting to see what happened with a higher turnout but I wouldn't be assuming a Leaver boycott.

Does anyone in r27 countries have a view on the current predictions of Eurosceptic shift in the EP coming from r27 countries?

Mistigri · 06/04/2019 16:00

Does anyone know why there are no planned talks between May and Corbyn this weekend, and the HOC are not doing anything brexity on Monday?

Point 1: because it turned out that despite current Tory and Labour brexits looking almost identical, neither Corbyn nor May know how to compromise. (This is good news for remainers though, or at least for the subset of remainers capable of good bowel control and a stiff upper lip while being dangled over the cliff edge).

Point 2: vote went against Letwin and indicative votes round 3 on Monday.

Justanothermile · 06/04/2019 16:05

Both sides will blame each other. I'm so sick of it, the political posturing and oneupmanship, when we just need, for the sake of our country, to get this mess sorted.

If the indicative votes don't, er, indicate something, then what again?

Motheroffourdragons · 06/04/2019 16:09

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

Loletta · 06/04/2019 16:09

@havingtochangeusernameagain
I know..cliff edge in the middle of the Easter break couldn't be worse. Having said that, no one else is worried or stockpiling...I'm always amazed at people's ignorance when it comes to Brexit

Littlespaces · 06/04/2019 16:09

at least for the subset of remainers capable of good bowel control and a stiff upper lip while being dangled over the cliff edge

Not looking forward to next week.

TheNorthWestPawsage · 06/04/2019 16:17

Was your pic taken by your cat doing a 'mouse's view' version of a selfie?

1tisILeClerc Ha ha! It was more along the lines of "get off your *ing phone and pay attention to meeeee!" (BTW your user name always reminds me of my old dad, who often used to announce himself on the phone with that phrase Smile)

OhYouBadBadKitten · 06/04/2019 16:22

I think the fact that it rained inside the Commons on Thursday also messed with any potential schedule for Monday.

Easilyflattered · 06/04/2019 16:24

Weekends are making me a bit twitchy at the moment. I worry that all MPs keep clocking off on Friday and nothing gets done until Monday when there's so little time life. Possibly they are working their arses off all weekend and are aware that we still have no frigging decision on anything and it's starting to mess with the nation's mental health.

DGRossetti · 06/04/2019 16:24

Would you be angry or pleased if the UK takes part in European Parliament elections in May, or do you not mind either way?

Very angry 30%
Angry 13%
Pleased 11%
Very pleased 17%
Don't mind 23%
Don't know 5%

Sorry, but it's gone a bit "yeah, whatevers" now. The 29th came and where were all the "very angry" people that we were told would begin a civil war ... well the ones that bothered to come out did start a civil war - with each other.

meanwhile, 1,000,000 did get off their arses.

It's not too late for Labour - not necessarily under Corbyn - to understand that whatever happened in 2016, Brexit has clearly become much more a Tory issue than Labour.

How come Leavers get to dismiss expert opinions as "Project Fear" while at the same time their forecasts of blood in the streets go unchallenged and taken as gospel ?

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