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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Schlong Extension

971 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2019 13:18

If Macron gets his way we have less than a week. And he seems pretty gung ho - convincing Spain and Belgium, when his veto, alone, would be enough

^Everyone talking about the flextensionschlong extension needs to listen to Macron. If he has his way - it's not happening.
Icantreachthepretzels

What has Macron actually said though and what does he actually believe in?

Just after the first extension was given, Macron said that if nothing changed before the 12th that DID NOT necessarily mean no deal ON the 12th itself. He said it could be on a day of the EU's choosing. It was a hint at a stay of execution at least.

In the last 24 hours or so, the noises have been that France favours no deal but wants two weeks for the markets to prepare. That's consistent with Macron's previous comments.

So I think it's fairly reasonable to take this as your baseline minimum. That would put us exiting on around 26th. I don't think we can refuse this minimum simply because we need every possible day we can get.

Indeed Macron apparently said at the last EU summit that he was in favour of an unconditional offer to stay in until 7th May but Merkel disagree not wanting us to exit the day before the EU's day of unity (9th).

So I think its reasonable that staying in until the 7th is very possible, but if Merkel is unhappy for symbolic reasons I think shift to the following week would be a reasonable compromise to Macron. Or it could make the 26th more likely.

Now the question is just how wedded Macron is to a Hardline approach? We know its Tusk and Merkel pushing Flextension because they lived in Eastern Europe at they have personal reasons over it. We know that Merkel only ever raised her voice to Cameron once over a conversation involving putting up borders with free movement. It's her big thing. And for Macron domestically he's made loud noises about the UK going sooner rather than later. He did a big uturn on his initial comments in agreeing to the 12th / 22nd. So there is something of a collision course here one way or another. Someone has to back down. Who will it be?

My suspicion is that privately whilst Macron knows he has to be tough and favours a sharp exit for domestic reasons he also respects Merkel. How he values his relationship with Merkel might be a big consideration as to how far he is prepared to compromise as well as how many others share France's reservations. I think it notable that whilst France has the power of veto, it seems to be trying to get the support of some of the other 26 too. I think it unlikely France would go for a veto if it were in a minority of one simply because that wouldn't be great for EU unity if others think it a high risk to go for only a short extension. So how easy it is to change the minds of others is perhaps more important than France’s position alone. Whilst throwing his weight around might look attractive and tempting to getting a more French centred leading of the EU post Merkel and whilst he might want to crack on with a much more integrated EU, he's not going to starting from a good place if France is resented for its hardline over Brexit. I'd argue that realistically France needs to work with the other 26 to get any reforms and leadership it wants.

Thus any concessions given won't be because Macron has sympathy for the UK, but because it suits his long term agenda in the EU.

Its worth remembering the conclusions of the last summit, in this context, were also of the opinion that we were more or less incapable of looking after ourselves and almost a failed state that needed baby sitting. They clearly think May is incapable. They may well favour a long extension purely on this basis to let Tories, Tory because no deal and a government collapse at the same time might be something they consider to be exceptionally bad and destabilising. And therefore pose something of a security risk to the EU. (France would, perhaps, be most exposed to this in theory). Indeed Alberto Nardelli of BuzzFeed reported yesterday that many felt a short extension was very risky to the EU. That suggests Macron is somewhat on the back foot.

There is also the observation that transition under the WA isn't a whole lot different to an extension. The real only stumbling block is the EP. The term Flextension really only hides this. And No Deal will merely lead to the WA at some point

No Deal just has a dangerous chaos section in the middle.

The French are certainly not convinced of a long extension though (and Tusk has acknowledged this in his push for a long extension. He is taking the French position seriously and is seeking to persuade rather than dismissing as posturing). On the other hand, its also taken seriously by hardline Tories looking to drive a wedge. Jacob Rees-Mogg's tweet about being obstructive in the EU parliament was very firmly aimed at influencing Macron. Arguably this might well have the opposite affect as it goes, as Macron will be smart enough to see it for what it is.

The other consideration in all this is the make up of the European Parliament itself. There are 14 countries who get extra seats. I can't find the full list, but here's nine of them: Denmark, Croatia, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Ireland, Italy, France and Spain. Having more seats is an important thing. And might be influential on what happens.

In Ireland's case it's particularly difficult. Unlike the UK it DOES NOT have a list system.

Peter Foster @pmdfoster
I understand Ireland is a tricky case, because it doesn't have list system.

This means you can't elect four MEPs and then choose top 3 until UK leaves and IE takes fourth seat...becuase if you ran only a 3-seat election you would get different top 3, than if ran 4-seat

Schlong extension with guillotine is something of a practical issue that needs clarification for the Irish; it's not really viable if we aren't committed to staying in for a fixed amount of time, whatever that might be. Exiting at our time of choosing or just having elections and then never taking our seats it's going to stick. I can't see how it will. So that's the exit on 30th June ruled out. Our exit will be something the EU will want to control the date of in some way, even if there is a 'guillotine clause'.

Nick Gutteridge (Sun) thinks a long extension is the most likely option on the balance of probabilities. Peter Foster (Telegraph) is slightly more doubtful and hestitant after hearing the French line. Prior to this he stated: “No deal” risk receded (for now) soon as May indicated Monday night she was open to ‘flextension’ and EU elex. Alberto Nardelli (BuzzFeed) and Katya Adler (BBC) seem to be of a similar mind set to Foster. Gutteridge and Foster have generally been more reliable than British journalists.

The big but to all this is whether May triggers EP elections in the Privy Council before the summit to signal her commitment. If she fails to do it, thinking she can do it after the summit, she won't be taken seriously and I think there is real danger it will revert to the French line.

If nothing else, if I had £100 to bet on whether we are still in the EU next Saturday, I think I'd have to put it on yes we will be. I may be wrong, but despite EU anger and frustration there isn't much to suggest a hard and fast guillotine on the 12th itself.

Will May and the ERG except a long extension? May sounds like she already has. But this is May, and until she takes action, she can't be trusted. Gove is quoted as saying: “It does not matter what the length of the extension that may be offered is. It ends at the point we are out” which seems to be a considered moderate response. Mogg's comments read as a belligerent acceptance of a long extension rather than a total rejection of the idea completely.

So I think if we are offered a long extension, we'll go through all the usual Peter Griffin impersonations and Boris Johnson huffing and puffing that it's a bad thing but it will be sucked up.

Then theres the question of May. She said she'd stay until the next phase. But a date of the 22nd May was also touted. That's probably more what Brexiteers will have their eyes on, than an extension which they will tolerate. It gives them longer to prep for no deal after all. And that ultimately might not be against the interests of the EU either. It just continues the transfer of business to the EU after all.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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HesterThrale · 08/04/2019 21:39

Leclerc what you say is true, but I'm hoping we return a set of more pro-EU MEPs this time.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/04/2019 21:40

No.10 statement:
Government and Labour officials holding further talks tonight about possible Brexit compromise

1922 Committee statement:
Chairman Brady says they ruled out call for a fresh no confidence vote in May, says Brady

ERG
No statement, but more resignations & splintering
Not a happy Band of Brothers

Sostenueto · 08/04/2019 21:40

And I have never seen so much police presence as I did in the middle of Luton town in my life! We are lucky if you can find a policeman where I live!Shock

BigChocFrenzy · 08/04/2019 21:41

Unfortunately there seems no way to leave the Eurovision contest !

FusionChefGeoff · 08/04/2019 21:43

Why are they continuing with the Cooper Letwin process seeing as she's already done what it legislates for? Or have I misunderstood (very likely - pesky work keeps getting in the way of my education via these threads)

TalkinPaece · 08/04/2019 21:44

Leaving Eurovision is easy : just do not submit an entry
but my family ADORE Eurovision
and always will Smile

1tisILeClerc · 08/04/2019 21:47

Get Bucks Fizz back on with their reworked song 'Making a wind up'.

lonelyplanetmum · 08/04/2019 21:47

my family ADORE Eurovision
and always will

Ditto!

Sostenueto · 08/04/2019 21:49

I usually sit through Eurovision with my mouth open in awe at the awful music wacky costumes eccentric people and ' how can this rubbish be watched' attitude thoroughly enjoying it!Confused

BigChocFrenzy · 08/04/2019 21:51

Our bestie among E27 leaders is reportedly the NL PM Rutte, even more than Merkel

He met May today - but whatever she said apparently didn't have any understandable content,
as he still doesn't seem to know why she wants an extension

He raises the EU concerns about "cooperation", i.e. the Uk not using the extension to be a wrecker ....
but for a long extension, how can they ensure a later PM Boris / JRM won't do this ?

He stresses again that for the EU, it is all about getting the WA approved

Mark Ruttee@MinPres*

Spoke to @theresa_may
At #EUCOO^ we will discuss UK request for further extension Brexit-day.

Crucial to know when and on what basis UK will ratify the Withdrawal Agreement

A positive decision hinges also on assurances from UK on sincere cooperation.

1tisILeClerc · 08/04/2019 21:51

Eurovision is only a problem if you attempt to take it seriously.
Handy tip:
TV sets have an 'off' button!

BigChocFrenzy · 08/04/2019 21:52

TiP I meant: how do we stop our embarassing entries Grin

dreichuplands · 08/04/2019 21:52

More Eurovision lovers. What's not love, we have a European buffet and wine courses to go along. DC enjoy it even without the wine.

LonelyTiredandLow · 08/04/2019 21:53

@Groovie wow. That reminds me of my Christian peer from Uni who suddenly messaged me a few months ago early on a Sunday morning. She voted leave and was basically saying that it is 'God's Will' that there be 3 world wars and that was why Brexit was happening... It was a very odd message and I replied impolitely and haven't heard of her since. That leaflet is something she would probably be quite at home with, unfortunately.

Thankfully my childhood friend who is an Evangelical Christian hasn't got the foggiest about Brexit and so I can infer that her church at least hasn't gone that way to date. It could be an interesting undercurrent...

1tisILeClerc · 08/04/2019 21:54

A positive decision hinges also on assurances from UK on sincere cooperation.
I refer you to the last 3 years of UK governmental behaviour.

Arborea · 08/04/2019 21:54

A quick thread on #Brexit, why the UK is not going to go back to normal politics after Brexit, why the worst is yet to come, and the folly of policy-driven (libertarian or socialist #Lexit) Brexits.

twitter.com/kleine_m/status/1115235905344876545

Sadly I don't think the UK is going to go back to normal politics in the unlikely event that we don't leave.

lonelyplanetmum · 08/04/2019 21:55

ERG- more resignations & splintering. Not a happy Band

Yay- About time for them to split and stop using taxpayers' money to fund a self interest party within a party.

(Just as predicted like the last cabal under Charles II. Personal rivalries and a conflict over policy escalated. They became very unpopular, characterised by arbitrary rule; the public saw them as "untrustworthy, venal and self-seeking, their eyes always on the main chance".)

TalkinPaece · 08/04/2019 21:56

BCF
The UK has to learn that the purpose is to have a laugh while settling political scores
hence why Conchita was the best song of modern times
and Euphoria was a classic

tobee · 08/04/2019 21:57

Thanks for the summary @GaspodeWonderCat.

PestyMachtubernahme · 08/04/2019 22:02

Steven Swinford @Steven_Swinford
Exclusive:

PM is considering giving MPs free vote on whether to hold 2nd referendum in bid to break Brexit deadlock with Labour

PM discussed offer with Cabinet ministers in No 10 today

Julian Smith said to be 'confident' Govt has nos to defeat it

So
The government is confident that MPs will vote against being allowed to have a free vote Hmm
They are giving me a head ache.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/04/2019 22:02

Leclerc It's not just the last 3 years - it predates the ref:

According to the Ivan Rogers C4 News interview that I linked,
the govt instructions to UK civil servants in the EU since 2010 have been to block / delay / vote down any new development on anything that the EU try to make

LonelyTiredandLow · 08/04/2019 22:02

It would actually be hilarious if every other country had a Brexit reference in their song. A bit like a long rendition of "Who Will Buy" from Oliver Twist with other countries popping in to say "I will buy!" Grin
France "Who will buy my fresh brewing barley? We've a lot enough for you all"
Germany "I'm so glad that you have some handy. The British left us high and dry"
UK: "Where is the man with all the money? Why won't you trust our price?" Grin

Probably doesn't make sense now I've tried to 'vocalise' it...

BigChocFrenzy · 08/04/2019 22:04

lonelytired Maybe they'll use a favourite British chant:
"what a load of rubbish !"

RedToothBrush · 08/04/2019 22:05

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3554831-Westminstenders-The-gall-of-the-french?watched=1
New thread before bed

OP posts:
prettybird · 08/04/2019 22:06

The Strictly BitchPod Facebook group that I run always gets re-activated between Strictly seasons for Eurovision so that we can laugh at comment constructively about the entries Grin

Scottish exams start on 25 April and finish on 1 June - although unusually, the exams at the beginning and (not so unusually) at the end are more esteric/low numbers. But in a lovely bit of serendipity, 23 May has the Italian exams scheduled Grin