Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: The May Compromise

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 02/04/2019 19:20

After a marathon cabinet meeting, which no one seems to have resigned from, May has had another podium moment.

This time instead of blaming everyone but herself, she's gone for the 'let's compromise approach' to Corbyn.

This comes after Nick Boles crossed the floor saying his side wasn't prepared to compromise on anything after May secretly whipped on a 'free' vote against him.

May also said she we needed more of an extension to the 22nd May but without promise of EU elections this means No Deal inevitable if May can't pass the WA by then. Provided EU allow an extension until then without EU elections.

She also hinted at respecting a majority idea over indicative votes, if she and Corbyn fail to agree - remembering she tried successfully to sabotage that last night.

Already many are saying this is a trap to ensnare others into the mess that is Brexit in the blame game. With no deal ultimately the end goal.

The idea that May can find a compromise with Corbyn seems a fantasy.

And the EU might have every reason to refuse a longer extension under the circumstances.

For May to compromise she surely would have to break the Tories to do it as Labour will only go for a soft option which is unacceptable to the ERG. Unless her idea of compromise is simply its the WA or No deal which it seems hard to conceive Labour going near with the realistic prospect of the next PM being a hardliner.

All in all it seems more likely to be a framing exercise in damage limitation rather than something which has more substance and a realistic prospect of working. And if that's really the case, it certainly would explain why no one's resigned yet.

Indicative Votes 3 and a pretty dodgy Cooper Amendment designed to be a last ditch attempt to prevent no deal are both scheduled.

Its desparation stakes and the EU more or less have us down as a failed state. And the pro Brexit bombs don't really add much optimist to the mood.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
32
wheresmymojo · 02/04/2019 20:17

So I'm nowhere near catching up on the thread...but I've just been listening to Michel Barnier talking to the EU Foreign Affairs Committee.

It was enlightening and I think pretty much implied:

  • If we leave with no deal, the first steps to getting any free trade deal would be signing up to something like the WA.
  • If we stay in a CU (whether 'the' CU or 'a' CU) we would not be able to negotiate our own trade deals with other countries
  • A key part of any free trade agreement would be "mechanisms to control the level of regulatory divergence to ensure a level playing field"

Basically...the EU has the massive upper hand here and whatever Farage et al thinks we won't be getting a free trade deal with them without paying the divorce bill, having regulatory alignment and unless we come up with the unicorn tech solutions for the NI border being in the customs union.

Even if we find a way of sorting the border and being outwith the CU the "mechanisms to control the level of regulatory divergence" will likely mean we'll have to choose between the US and EU to some extent.

Such is the life of a small country between two superpowers.

wheresmymojo · 02/04/2019 20:19

Also...I'm sure this has been said 100 million times while I've been at work but....clearly TM is full of shit.

She knows Corbyn will want a CU as a minimum and if she was okay with that then she wouldn't have whipped against Boles last night.

It's a trap!

Sostenueto · 02/04/2019 20:19

Corbyn now made it clear what he wants and why he wants it. He wanted it known before he went in that he wants to stop a no deal so blame when it us a no deal cannot be his. Also he made it clear that TM hasn't compromised but he's willing to see what happens more or less.

JC did not even know about meeting till he saw it on TV. so obviously TM in no way serious about these talks.

SisterMichael · 02/04/2019 20:20

PMK

Sostenueto · 02/04/2019 20:21

Yes a very big trap. Come on Starmer for goodness sake advise JC or go with him please! JC not bright enough for this Hokery Pokery!

Sunshine1239 · 02/04/2019 20:21

The majority of remainers argue May won’t compromise but how can she? She’s trying to implement the majority vote and the vast majority of leave voters voted to their own trade deals and control of immigration. People may argue against that but yourd kiddjng yourself as these were the main two arguments from day 1.

Neither of which these soft deals allow? They’re not brexit so she’s completely right to fight for the winning vote. I understand people not being happy with it but she sure isn’t wrong in trying. Corbyn will suffer massively if it came down to election and the leave campaign started actually campaigning! All we hear at the minute is the remain campaign

With a soft brexit noones happy

BigChocFrenzy · 02/04/2019 20:22

stumbledin The EU is not being "intransigent" to refuse to damage their Single Market and to refuse to abandon member country Ireland,
just to save the embarassment of one political party within a leaving country

The UK could have left easily if it had originally aimed for a Norway+++ / Single Market + Customs Agreement deal

The EU warned before the referendum that the Uk could not retain all the benefits of EU membership, when leaving it

The UK politicians and electorate overall made a completely false assessment of UK power
and chose to listen to the unicorn whisperers instead ... who have delivered a donkey's arse

wheresmymojo · 02/04/2019 20:24

Sorry, still catching up though may never get chance to read the second half of the last thread.

The Lib Dem's have been conspicuous through their absence of any decent input into the debates.

Vince has stood up and said the odd thing here and there but they've had nowhere near the level of input as the SNP, Tiggers or even some of the Indys IMO.

Where are they?

Holidayshopping · 02/04/2019 20:24

When are they supposed to be meeting-do we know?

Tonight?
Tomorrow?
Next Thursday evening?!

LouiseCollins28 · 02/04/2019 20:25

Nothing came of it, as I recall, because Corbyn arrived to meet May,
saw Chuka Umuna, took major umbriage and walked out.

Thought her tone was much more conciliatory, Corbyn appears to be happy to meet as well. Both things positive IMO.

Sostenueto · 02/04/2019 20:25
Horehound · 02/04/2019 20:26

She got the short straw when all the tory men ran away you do realise she had a choice? She wanted to do it...

BigChocFrenzy · 02/04/2019 20:27

sunshine The PM is not supposed to consider only Leave voters, but the whole country

Leave meant different things to different people, so it was never a solid 52% for No Deal

  • and polls for months indicate that Remain has risen to about 55%

Some Leavers now have said they always wanted a Norway-type Brexit; others say they would accept it as a compromise

Add the Leavers & Remainers who would accept the compromise if both May & Corbyn agree
and that would get a substantial majority in the country

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 02/04/2019 20:28

thanks red

RedToothBrush · 02/04/2019 20:29

Steve hawkes @ steve_hawkes
Only been here 5.5 years but have never heard MP reaction like tonight
Tory MPs - and not just ERG - utterly astounded
They believe some in Cabinet agreed to this just to kill PM off
One in a marginal "She's just killed me"
Another: "She's just legitimised Corbyn."

OP posts:
DangermousesSidekick · 02/04/2019 20:29

I'm thinking TM's offer to JC is probably genuine because apparently Boris Johnson is pissed off about it. I'd like to share my dh's reaction to this with the world as it was articulate and simple - "oh good".

Being rather less articulate I'd like to take this opportunity to deliver a simpler message to the right dishonourable member in question. Shut up. Just shut up, and go away. In fact FOTTFSOFATFOSM. His existence is an embarrassment to Britain imnho.

(PMK)

BigChocFrenzy · 02/04/2019 20:30

sos The least of my concerns is Corbyn getting blamed for No Deal
He is a Lexiter who has resisted a PV all this time

Finally, I hope both leaders can come to a deal, which would then - because of party politics - mean that most people in the country would accept it

We desperately need compromise, to avoid the bitter divide in the country becoming worse

MarshaBradyo · 02/04/2019 20:30

It’s stalemate I hope it’s genuine and this is it!

Sunshine1239 · 02/04/2019 20:32

The polls stayed 55% remain prior to the referendum when leave were campaigning

Now they’re not campaigning - once they start and you add in all the ‘they’re ignoring your vote’ etc leave is likely to win much more. Labour stated so not long ago

Sostenueto · 02/04/2019 20:34

louise do you not understand that JC walking out was staged by TM?
If you are at work and your boss calls for all heads of departments to a serious and critical meeting how would you feel if one of the cleaners turned up? It was staged by TM for goodness sake she knew JC would be insulted by Chukka being there and walk out. JC is the LEADER of the MAIN opposition party and therefore commands respect. Chukka is not a leader of an opposition party and had no right to be there. The tiggers are not an official political party. They are defectors from other parties.I too, country or no country would walk out if I had been so so disrespected by May. The meeting was fruitless anyway. Its all TMs gamesmanship. That is all she is good for.

RedToothBrush · 02/04/2019 20:34

Faisal Islam@faisalislam
Cabinet source: Gove and Cox made the decisive contributions “changed the day” after more than half a dozen Cabinet ministers advocated leaving with No Deal - “have to deal with the facts as we see them”.
Rudd backed them up - we can have our own views but not our own facts

OP posts:
woman19 · 02/04/2019 20:34

One in a marginal "She's just killed me

Guido Fawkes:
"Local elections will be a bloodbath for Theresa May's candidates"

BigChocFrenzy · 02/04/2019 20:35

Gove definitely has come in from the < wet tentacles slapping > side

Other ministers may also have had a reality check, but spin doctors are furiously spinning numbers

Tom Newton Dunn@tnewtondunn

14 or 4? Depends who's spinning...

steve hawkess@steve*_hawkes

New Cabinet source says that just FOUR Ministers opposed an extension

Gavin Williamson, Penny Mordaunt, Liz Truss and Chris Grayling

< 4 particularly loathsome & incompetent ministers - May should welcome their resignations >

nuttynutjob · 02/04/2019 20:36

PMK

PostNotInHaste · 02/04/2019 20:37

I think it is dangerous to assume Johnson actually believes what he says, it’s all aimed at his Leadership bid. Am caught up now I think and as with it as can be at this point.

So basically she’s trying to get us to point where it’s too late to hold EP elections so they have to go for her deal but as a safeguard for if that fails EP elections will be Corbyn’s fault to be trotted out against him at next election if he is still leader. Is that right?

Personally I’d like someone to consider DD’s views. She was too young to vote in Referendum but expected to pay tax and NI.