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Brexit

Westministenders: Happy Birthday Chris Grayling!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/03/2019 22:35

Yep he's an April Fool. No really he is!

Today (1st April - I'm starting the thread slightly early) is the return of Indicative Votes.

This follows the defeat of May's Deal by 286 to 344 on Friday.

The Sunday Press has been full of talk of a Cabinet Collapse with 10 Cabinet Brexiteers threatening to walk, with the support of 170 Tory MPs, if May goes for a softer Brexit or fails to leave the EU by 22nd May regardless of whether this is with a Deal or with No Deal and Remain Cabinet Members threatening to walk if May goes for No Deal.

This is in addition to May's apparent threat that the House was at its limits for the process which has been taken as meaning she is considering a GE. Which both Tory Brexiteers and Tory Remainers say they will block. The threat of a GE has largely been seen as a threat to force MPs to back her deal.

May now faces the choice she has always resisted, which on the face of it, looks like it could cause a split in the Tory Party. She will obviously do everything she can to avoid making that choice. Her solution seems to be MV4 with the Snell / Nandy Amendment, which gives parliament a say in the next phase of Brexit. This theorectically is about the Political Declaration (PD) which the Indicative Votes essentially is about.

However it needs to be stressed repeatedly that the EU have said, that they do not care about the PD and all soft Brexits (variations on May's current PD) also require the WA to pass, such is the EU's distrust in the UK. This would include the Common Market 2.0 suggestion (Boles Amendment 189-283), despite what various MPs have suggested simply because it could be used as a temporary transition by the backdoor and CM2.0 doesn't cover certain aspects of withdrawal such as the divorce settlement, long term citizens rights and fishing rights amongst others. And this is going to be a big issue when it comes to the DUP who are now leaning to a soft Brexit or even revocation.

In light of this apparent Government Nervous Breakdown John Major has raised the prospect of a temporary government of National Unity, which is difficult to envisage how that would work given the current parliamentary polarisation. Indeed Labour have ruled this possibility out.

There has also been comments made that any policy passed by Parliament stemming from Indicative Votes could be ignored by May by her using her status of PM to ask the Queen to refuse to give it Royal Ascent. Which surely would go down a storm with her Majesty to be asked to be embroiled into this political pantomine.

Voting on the Indicative Votes is due to start at 8pm - 8.30pm tomorrow with a debate before it.

The Options on the table (but yet to be selected by the Speaker) are:
A) Baron, unilateral backstop exit.

B) Baron, if no WA by then, no-deal Brexit on 12/4. 160-400

C) Clarke, permanent UK-wide customs union. 265-271

D) Boles, Common Market 2.0 (EEA+CU).
Broadly similar to motion from last week, with some changes. 189-283

^E) Kyle / Beckett, WA + PD approval subject to confirmatory PV. 268-295

F) Jones/Grieve, PV if necessary to prevent no deal. Not previously tabled.

G) Cherry, A50 revocation as default if necessary to prevent no deal.
More detailed version of last weeks motion. 184-293

H) Eustice, EFTA+EEA.
Slightly modified version from last week. 64-377

Clark and Boles amendments are the ones to watch. They have apparently gathered more support since last week. Boles CM2.0 appears to have Labour swinging support behind it, unofficially atm.

May is also under pressure to allow the Cabinet Free Votes this time on the CU vote (they abstained last week). Whether this will happen is still anyone's guess.

There is also talk of an alternative 'Custom's Partnership' idea - a fudge that would see the UK stay in parts of a customs union. This idea has been previously rejected by the EU and the Cabinet. But we know how much May loves her fudges.

Robert Peston is saying tonight that whether May and the Government fall may rest on how much support the Customs Union and her allies are desparate for it to get a parliamentary majority - particularly with support from more Conservatives (it only got 35 Tory Votes last time). This would mark a breakthrough and the first positive majority for Brexit.

If it passes, the suggestion is that MV4 will be Tuesday. Of course it remains to be seen if ERG hardliners who switched last week would continue to support her deal if she goes for a CU option and whether getting a parliamentary majority for a CU plus the Snell Amendment would be sufficient to persuade enough Labour MPs, the DUP and perhaps Tory Remainers to push it over the line.

However May going for the CU could provoke a Cabinet resignations or even splits in the party meaning that MV4 on Tuesday is somehow impossible or at least delayed.

Expect May to keep her cards to her chest about whether she will go for a CU as long as possible as a result. (Possibly NOT before a MV4).

Meanwhile it looks like there might be a storm brewing about the stripping of NI born Irish citizens of their EU citizenship, which seems to be in breech of the GFA.

And the Tory Leadership contest is in full swing. Hunt and Javid have been labelled as The TiTs (Theresa in Trousers), Johnson is styling himself as a One Nation Tory (although he is not a member of the One Nation Group within the party) who will bring sweeping tax cuts, and Grayling is saying the next leader must be a Cabinet Minister with experience and has always been a Brexiteer.

And Finally, David Allen Green raises a concern about a potential new exit day, if it changes from 12 April.

David Allen Green @ Davidallengreen
If a new exit day is not agreed until 10/11 April (ie European Council), there will be not enough time for exit day in domestic legislation to be amended in time before 12 April. It was close this time, with the shift from 29 March.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
TheNorthWestPawsage · 01/04/2019 08:10

pmk

BercowsSilkTie · 01/04/2019 08:16

Ds who is just 4 is going round saying: "the noes have it! The noes have it! " 😂

Shadycorner · 01/04/2019 08:20

BercowsSilkTie Grin

borntobequiet · 01/04/2019 08:20

67 I think you can do (sort of) yoga and ironing simultaneously

BercowsSilkTie · 01/04/2019 08:23

Should amuse them at nursery today. We watched The House With The Clock In Its Walls last night and he has donned goggles with his uniform and wants to wear them all day. He's a funny little boy going round the place wearing goggles yelling the noes have it! The noes have it! Love him so much 😊

BiglyBadgers · 01/04/2019 08:26

Morning all. I took the weekend off for the sake of my health, but back kinging that placemats today to see what happens with the indicative votes.

Camomila · 01/04/2019 08:30

That's lovely Bercow DS has ended up watching a lot of BBC Parliament with us too - he just shouts 'flog it!' when they start shouting mainly (he's 2 and likes watching flog it with my DF)

TheABC · 01/04/2019 08:33

Loving the little ones. I am not going to venture a prediction on how this will turn out (although the penny finally seems to be dropping for a lot of MPs), but the Revoke petition will be discussed in the House today. I plan to watch that and see who supports it.

bellinisurge · 01/04/2019 08:36

I watched that episode of Countryfile. Looks like a rolling series on the topic (about bloody time!). I shouted at the TV rather a lot. I never shout at the TV.

TheMShip · 01/04/2019 08:41

Morning! Must do actual work today, but will check in once it's heating up tonight.

RedToothBrush · 01/04/2019 08:43

Ds who is just 4 is going round saying: "the noes have it! The noes have it!

Brilliant. Now I know that it's not just me walking around Tesco dying of embarrassment at their 4 year old doing Bercow impressions at the top of their voice.

OP posts:
QueenMabby · 01/04/2019 08:46

Lol Bercow at your DS - he sounds adorable!
I’m at home today with a poorly DD - she’s gone back to bed and pulled the duvet over her head. Have to say....it sounds like a plan this week!!

Violetparis · 01/04/2019 08:46

woman19 hope all those Labour MPs contemplating voting for May's WA read the tweet you shared and realise that once May has gone there is no telling what will happen.

Violetparis · 01/04/2019 08:50

Smiling at all the little ones copying Bercow, I must admit myself and my daughter join in with a loud 'clear the lobby' at every vote Blush

1tisILeClerc · 01/04/2019 08:52

{ I tuned in to Countryfile as I thought it would be a nice break from the chaos of Brexit. So frustrating to hear the farmers slowly realise that they may well have ruined their own businesses.}

Looks like there will be a very long queue for government 'handouts' to support all the businesses that will collapse.
IIRC Gove said that the EU subsities they receive now would be covered by the UK gov but only for 2 years (end of transition).

Are the BMW and Nissan employees on holiday today or have the shutdowns been rescheduled?

Shadycorner · 01/04/2019 08:55

I know Bellini ( and MissMalice) my DH put his head in his hands during that Countryfile piece and actually rocked in distress.

Their coverage of Brexit has been so tentative to date it's laughable. You can just imagine the tortuous conversations around the table in production meetings about "showing balance".

Shadycorner · 01/04/2019 08:59

X post 1tisIleClerc!

vanitythynameisnotwoman · 01/04/2019 09:01

I'm trying to have weekends relatively free of politics to make up for the weekdays that are totally full but I too saw that on Countryfile - and these were capable women, successful in running their business - what chance did so many others have?

I hope that today it's made clear all the many things that a CU doesn't do and that require SM membership. I have lots of respect for Ken Clarke but it runs into unicorn territory if we describe it as compatible with GFA as on its own it isn't.

And thank you Red for that phenomenal summary - you really should be headhunted as a political commentator!

GeistohneGrenzen · 01/04/2019 09:02

PMK

ClashCityRocker · 01/04/2019 09:04

When will we know which of the amendments are selected to vote on?

CurlyWurlyTwirly · 01/04/2019 09:08

Thank you so much Red
Had a break from Brexit this weekend but ready to face this week.
The analysis on this thread is awesome.

67chevvyimpala · 01/04/2019 09:11

Awww. The little ones!!!❤

Sadly, I don't laugh whilst ironing...I seethe with resentment and sing along to classic rock.

Currently its "keep on loving you" by reo speedwagon.

Littlespaces · 01/04/2019 09:11

MV4 hmm she’s going to run out of ways to tweak her damned WA soon

I bet she has a team dreaming up things to tack onto the MV.

Songsofexperience · 01/04/2019 09:20

Bercow
He's a proper super star ( and your DS too!)
We were having Sunday roast at my parents' and my elderly dad called everyone to lunch bellowing OOOORRRDDDERRRR

LonelyTiredandLow · 01/04/2019 09:23

I feel like every week I lose a bit more of my grasp on what is going on.

With Clarke's CU, what are the downsides? I think it was Tusk at the end of last week who said it would be possible to do a deal on that in a couple of days? So what is stopping other countries copying it?
My brain feels fried.