Westminstenders: Indicative Crossiants

[RedToothBrush]

Tomorrow the Indicative debate starts at 3pm

The Speaker will choose options to go to vote.

Vote at 7pm for yes or no for each option.

7.30pm The SI debate on extension followed by vote.

Announcement of the indicative vote sometime between 8.15pm and 9.30pm

Meanwhile the DUP have indicated they would prefer a long delay (and presumably EU elections by default) rather than May's deal, in a strange twist of Brexit.

Although I'm pleased that Labour are seeming to support the kyle-wilson (Beckett) motion, I'm uneasy that they're being whipped. Am I right to be? I thought this was a free vote (although I'm very lost so no idea about what's going on!)

Fishes I've never thought her original aim was No Deal
She always wanted a deal and will still try to push her WA through, if she thinks it has a chance

However, if she can't get the WA through, then imo she would rather force through No Deal than ignite the simmering Tory Party civil war by either having a PV or Revoking.

I agree that she is frantically trying to spread the blame not just for No Deal, now that she sees it as the most likely outcome,
but also for anything else that happens instead

No deal splits her party and risks electoral disaster, there is no guarantee the public will agree that everyone but the Tories are to blame for it.

So far the public blame MPs for the mess we are in.

I find it bearable to mute the volume and put on subtitles when TM is speaking. I do it for Trump as well.

Subtitles deployed.

{She's still wearing that bloody awful coat!! (trivial).}
I was presuming it was an attempt at a relatively pleasing bullet and knife proof vest.

No deal splits her party and risks electoral disaster, there is no guarantee the public will agree that everyone but the Tories are to blame for it.

So far the public blame MPs for the mess we are in.

Yep.

Even JRM knows there’s not enough support in Parl for No Deal:

“The choice seems to be Mrs May’s deal or no Brexit.”

“The Prime Minister does not want to leave without a deal, and the Cabinet doesn’t want to leave without a deal and the British parliament doesn’t want to leave without a deal.”

“It is therefore very, very difficult to see how to get to leaving without a deal even though that is the law of the land.”

I knew Mark François was an odious little oaf but ffs. Just been hearing him on the World at 1 and Sarah Montague did an absolutely fantastic job of remaining scrupulously polite in the face of his utter vileness. He's just so unspeakable.

(I would have lunged for the radio to turn off, as I did twice this morning when Leadsom and JRM turned up on Today, but my hands were in washing-up water)

I've just been spending the last 5 minutes trying to improve the picture on my telly to make Sir Oliver Letwin not look like he's about to explode from high blood pressure. He looks worryingly red in the face.

Sadly there is no button on my telly that stops Steve Baker from looking like a weasel.

I’m sure Philip has something to do with that coat. It’s the kind of thing my father would think looks ‘practical’.

I think it just looks indecisive.

Very impressed with Letwin. Done his homework well, is calm but resolute. Puts ball effectively in ERG’s court, if they vote for MV3 then all this not necessary,

'Double coating'

Apparently it's a thing

The coat in this picture is dark blue. I've seen her wearing a light greyish-violet one as well. Does that mean she's double double-coating ?

History lesson now in response to JRM saying things are deeply irregular. Now JRM back to Tudor times. Letwin going fit it on the subject. Sovereignty lies here ie. the House and not in Whitehall.

If I am being completely honest I have some sympathy with louise's view that after you have voted to trigger article 50 it is a little surprising to decide that you actually think you should revoke. Ken Clarke can't have been the only MP who understood at the time that Brexit would be awful for the UK, the rest lacked moral courage. However, regardless of how late the remain leaning MP's have found either moral courage or plain common sense, having found it they have to vote not to damage the country. Those voting for PV aren't voting to remain just to enable the public to make an informed choice.

Alex Wickham @alexwickham
Julian Smith email confirming indicative votes will be free votes for MPs, and those who attend cabinet will abstain. Three line whip on the SI to extend Article 50

While people are in the mood to sign petitions, any chance of getting the numbers up for this? eci.ec.europa.eu/002/public/#/initiative

1tis1

... The coat is by an Italian brand called Herno and costs £825 according to the Fail and £920 according to the Times.

So it’s meant to look like that

Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor
Labour MPs will be whipped to support the Kyle/Wilson motion on a second referendum later BUT pretty clear frontbenchers will not be disciplined if they refuse.

Spokesman said: "It's a matter for the Chief Whip and that would apply in this case. These are unusual circumstances."

When is a whip, not a whip.

Will be interesting to see which way Corbyn votes then...

The government are whipping against even holding the damn indicative votes now!? What do they think has changed since Letwin's amendment was passed earlier in the week?

There is a big difference between what is good for the Tory Party and what is good for the country
May puts the Tory party first

No Deal would not split the Tories as badly as Revoke, or PV:

Tory voters are 70% Leave, mostly with No Deal
Tory members are about 90% Leave with No Deal

From what I've googled John Bercow will announce the voting options at 3.30 pm. Although the timetable I saw also said that the "takeover " would be from 2pm and I think they are running slightly behind. If I'm understanding correctly?

However, regardless of how late the remain leaning MP's have found either moral courage or plain common sense, having found it they have to vote not to damage the country. Those voting for PV aren't voting to remain just to enable the public to make an informed choice.

Because the public’s choice was so informed in the last one?

Only Remain doesn’t damage the country, I don’t care at what point Remain MPs find their voice or get their balls together.

Dominic Cummings is calling Leavers to arms for another corrupt Leave campaign so be careful what you wish for.

Many MPs have shown how astonishingly ignorant they were about Brexit

Many believed "authority figures" (e.g. DD) that the EU would be divided
and that the UK could strongarm a deal with almost all the benefits, but without FOM and ECJ

Now they are up against the cold reality that the UK is nowehere near as strong as the y thought, but in fact would struggle very badly globally

Hence they are perfectly justified in changing their minds after invoking A50

The facts haven't changed, but their acceptance of them has

Perhaps it's a reversible coat? Would that be a good omen?