I want to leave the EU because....

[Fatasfook]

Personally I don’t but I have never heard a good reason to leave and I really want to, the mantra seems to be “we won so deal with it”
So if you are a leaver then please finish this sentence
I want to leave the EU because....

The gilets jaunes are protesting about petrol prices, which Macron introduced as part of an environmental plan.
They are also protesting because a rural/provincial (non-pejorative term here) way of life is being destroyed by urban planning decisions and by successive gvmts' attacks on public services which mean people living outside big cities cannot do without cars any longer.
Few (if any, but I'll have a look) have mentioned the price of brie or apples.
Their initial movement has also been taken over by both the far left and the far right, but its initial impetus was fuel prices.
What they are fighting against is also the increasing divide between rich and poor, which Macron has not addressed at all. To few people's surprise.
And I can only reiterate that the exchange rate plays a part in perceptions of prices.

Immediately after the referendum the EU negotiators asked the UK for their plan for how and which elements of EU membership they wanted to keep or leave.
The UK essentially fannied around and did not produce a plan so the EU took matters in hand and produced the WA which sets out how the UK can leave and not damage the 4 pillars of the EU.
The UK eventually came up with Theresa's 12 'red lines' most of which are completely unacceptable as they destroy the EU founding principles.
So far the UK has no real plan and has been pissing everyone off.

The gilets jaunes are protesting about petrol prices

Food doesn’t magically appear in supermarkets or at a market stall. It has to be transported by vehicles which requires fuel which is eye wateringly expensive and has to be paid for by rising the cost of food or anything else that needs transporting across France.

Then if you live in a rural community you have to travel further to buy the food etc so spending more money on transport.

You are like those people who say they couldn’t care less about putting up the price of fuel as they don’t have a car.

The cost of fuel impacts the cost of everything else.

You are like those people who say they couldn’t care less about putting up the price of fuel as they don’t have a car.
I beg your pardon?

When you go for a sandwich and you are getting charged nearly £10, cheapest was £7.50

Fucking hell, where were you shopping?

Housing, childcare and public transport are all big-ticket items that are much cheaper in France.

TaMereAPoilDevantPrisu

Supermarkets and service stations.

Housing, childcare and public transport are all big-ticket items that are much cheaper in France

That is what I was saying that these things bring the average price of everything down but it is still a very expensive place to go.

Am I missing something? City centre supermarkets and service stations are not representative of average living costs. A sarnie from a motorway service station in the UK will be much more than one from Tesco.

Expensive to visit as a tourist does not equal expensive to live in precisely because of things like subsidised childcare and public transport. And I can buy a filled baguette sandwich at my local bakery for about 3 euros.

And if I may say so it's a wee bit disingenuous to say "if you take out housing costs everything is more expensive" given that for most people, housing is by far the most expensive single drain on their budget.

EU took matters in hand and produced the WA which sets out how the UK can leave and not damage the 4 pillars of the EU

The EU pay to remain plan was defeated for the third time. Thankfully there are some MPs who realise that the result of the 2016 referendum must be upheld.

Haven’t RTFT but for those asking what’s the advantage to joining big strong northern EU economies with the small ones? There is a big advantage- if the Deutschmark existed today it would be worth a LOT more than the euro. The German manufacturing powerhouse is crucial to German economic success. By linking their currency to places like Greece and Portugal which are effectively defective economies, it drags down the value of the euro.

This makes German manufactured goods more affordable and therefore more competitive. There’s a reason they didn’t want Greece crashing out of the EU- it would be disastrous for the German economy if the value of the euro bounced.

Additionally, the benefits of joining with a big economy are not actually that apparent. While access to cheap finance is good, if your economy is corrupt and dysfunctional in the first place, access to cheap finance just means you blitz more and more cash (e.g.: Greece) on structural deficiencies (Pension entitlements, high wage growth, etc. without any actual productivity growth fuelled by cheap finance that was being used by political parties to bribe populations to keep them in power). So corrupt reasons for doing so are apparent. However look at Italy’s GDP growth: something like 9% growth of GDP in real terms in the last 10 years. That’s beyond a joke: high value currency slaughters service and tourism based economies. And it’s not anomalous: many of the southern EU states are crippled with poor GDP growth rates and spiralling debt. France who has had decent growth has now broken EU rules on deficits and long term debt. In almost every instance these economies would be better off with their own currency which they could devalue for increases in tourism which would actually lead to genuine GDP growth and international investment.

The euro is a poisoned chalice if ever there was one. Turns out my history lecturer in 2004 was right: the EU was Germany realising its foreign policy and trade objectives from the last 100 years.

I think Tubeworker has said it better than me and this is why many people who remember WW2 want to escape the clutches of Germany.

“Labour did not control anything. Remember the famous note that said "there is no money left"”

Are people still dredging that up??

It was a joke, of the sort that is often left as humorous advice from an outgoing Government. The Conservatives left similar jokes for incoming Labour Governments: they’re not all po-faced, shouty ranters, you know.

This difference this time was that, for the first time in decades, it was a LibDem who was in Government and he immediately went running to the media with it.

And that, and similar tale-bearer antics (Vince Cable has recently pulled another such stunt) is just one reason why the LibDems are not trusted. It makes them look like Tabaqui the Jackal.

{I think Tubeworker has said it better than me and this is why many people who remember WW2 want to escape the clutches of Germany.}

Within the EU the UK has prospered and there is no reason why the UK couldn't have done better or as well as Germany while within the EU. Lack of proper investment in people and industry in the UK is holding the UK back, and leaving the EU will just add extra bureaucracy and tariff costs to hinder the UK. Nissan, Ford, BMW Toyota, all foreign investments to bring the UK up to speed, rather than the UK government.

RE: France, the way finances are structured is different to the UK so housing is relatively cheap, but food is more expensive. You also need to be selective where you buy of course. Waitrose is more expensive than other places but you need to decide what to buy and where. It may have excellent fresh fruit and veg, but paying extra for the same can of beans is bonkers.

My reasons are

Freedom of movement. I’d happily welcome any race or colour if they have a skill if any kind that the country actually requires

I believe EU is propped up by a few successful country’s. I do NOT feel this is sustainable long term. Massive unemployment in Spain Greece etc has to give eventually.

I want to be able to decide our own laws and rules.

I want uk money to be spent within the uk.

Europeans tend to feel more together by nature if there geographical closeness. Shared rivers etc. Britain has never had this. Many British people would not Consider themselves as a European

However. I don’t trust anyone in govt to do the right thing now so I’m thinking I’d support a people’s vote if it was offered.

I feel very let down.

.....when the British people vote in an election they should be able to change the policy of the government and it’s personnel. David Cameron’s abortive renegotiation proved that the EU is unreformable. There is no democratic way for the people of Europe to get rid of Juncker or Tusk. In this environment prosperity is irrelevant-there’s no mechanism for ensuring wealth is evenly distributed.

{David Cameron’s abortive renegotiation proved that the EU is unreformable.}
It proves nothing of the sort. Cameron actually got about three quarters of what he asked for. Nobody EVER gets exactly what they want in life.

{There is no democratic way for the people of Europe to get rid of Juncker or Tusk. }
They were proposed and seconded to their positions for a fixed term.
They are the spokespersons for the EP/EU and cannot decide anything alone, they have to have consensus from elected MEPs.

madeyemoodysmum
Maybe do some research rather than parroting the like of Farage. Most of what you say is incorrect.

I am a Remainer and definitely made money because of Brexit. Sometimes you have to find the silver lining and go with it

you voted leave tho, right? i distinctly remember your posts at the time because they were so extremely 'ardent'.

Oliversmumsarmy

I go to France 4 x per year, i do not recognise France as you describe.

Super market fuel prices are as cheap than the UKs S/M's and a sandwich a take away sandwich easily bought for 3 or 4 euros.

My 2 week self catering stays cost me less in food than the UK, omitting restaurant meals.

The GJ are a tiny % of the French population but yes, its not good and Macron has handled it badly, unfortunately for the French, he was carrying out his manifesto on environmental policy.

Tubeworker we are not in the Euro and given what you say, it reflects very badly on the UK that sterling has fallen fairly consistently against the since 1999, regardless of the southern European states joining.

There is no democratic way for the people of Europe to get rid of Juncker or Tusk

This makes me laugh, we cannot get rid of TM or any other PM either, until the 5 year fixed Parliament has ended, similar to the EU Presidents.
We didn't even vote for May, she was shoehorned in, the '17 GE was for her, not for us to approve.

The EU do not have the power to distribute wealth whatsoever, their power over the nation state is very limited, brexit supporters should wake up to this fact.

Many British people would not Consider themselves as a European

Exactly this.
I am well travelled, can speak Spanish, French and a little bit of German.
But I would never call myself a European, not for any nefarious reason or xenophobia.
Its genuinely never occurred to me to do so.

Tubeworker we are not in the Euro and given what you say, it reflects very badly on the UK that sterling has fallen fairly consistently against the since 1999, regardless of the southern European states joining.

Wait what? We’re not in the Euro??

Yes I am aware. I wasn’t making an argument one way or another- I was responding to the question people were asking earlier in the thread as to why people with a million pounds would open a bank account with someone with £5.

@SingleDadReally when the British people vote in an election they should be able to change the policy of the government and it’s personnel

Utter, utter nonsense. You vote for your MP nothing more.

Many democracies have unelected people serving in them. How many elected offices are there in the U.S cabinet?

It's still a democracy isn't it.

Tubeworker - i wouldn't respond again with that argument again! the euro isn't the basket case currency many pretend it is, its the worlds 2nd most traded currency and if, in another world the UK joined it, it would be stronger still.

We are not opening a joint acc with £1m and they have £5, they do not have access to our 1m, in GDP terms about £1, we've a £2 trillion economy and trade with all of the eu27, as they grow, we trade more, its not a one way street as many leavers would have us believe.

250 jobs near me, rely on selling goods to 19 eu countries and an additional 11 countries globally,

"Europeans tend to feel more together by nature if there geographical closeness. Shared rivers etc. Britain has never had this. Many British people would not Consider themselves as a European "

[whispers] we have a land border with the European Union. Actually, we have two.

i wouldn't respond again with that argument again!

I wasn’t making an argument- I was responding to someone’s question about why European powerhouse economies would tie themselves to basket case economies. I was arguing that it suits the powerhouse economies of the euro to be tied to the basket case economies. I was also suggesting that although it appeared to be in the basket case economies favour, it was actually largely detrimental as they didn’t have the option of devaluing their currency in order to stimulate real term growth and investment (see what is currently happening to Greece/Italy/Portugal).

Nothing to do with the UK, which as you so adroitly pointed out, isn’t in the euro...