I want to leave the EU because....

[Fatasfook]

Personally I don’t but I have never heard a good reason to leave and I really want to, the mantra seems to be “we won so deal with it”
So if you are a leaver then please finish this sentence
I want to leave the EU because....

This is like bloody Groundhog Day. Give it a rest please.

I didn’t vote leave. But, from reading all these mumsnet threads, the things I’ve learned about Leavers are as follows:

1. They’ve been shat on in life- many live in post-industrial areas where inward investment has been minimal.

1. They have been particularly hard hit by austerity. Cuts to public services have made services difficult to access and navigate.

1. They see remainers prattling on about abstract concepts like Freedom of Movement and Erasmus and wonder wtf that is, it sounds pretentious.

1. They felt the Leave campaign spoke to them in a way they haven’t been spoken with in generations. This was their chance to be listened to and feel as if they held agency to enable change for once.

1. They perceive things as being so terrible, a major disruption to a status quo that has previously offered them nothing but a shut door in their faces to be a good thing. For what have they to lose.

Those Leavers, I can understand. The wealthy ones with offshore holdings ready to profit from disruption and chaos, I cannot.

BrexitCentral want to drop tariffs so food prices plummet, British farming livelihoods be damned.

Monbiot thinks post-Brexit we should raise trade barriers & somehow this will encourage small producers (& it's fine if food prices rise).

Govey wants as much of the status quo as possible for British Farmers. So that's clear as mud what Brexit will mean for UK agriculture.

{3. They see remainers prattling on about abstract concepts like Freedom of Movement and Erasmus and wonder wtf that is, it sounds pretentious.}

So google doesn't work if you are a leave voter?

{1. They’ve been shat on in life- many live in post-industrial areas where inward investment has been minimal.}

So many, like Irish, Polish and Chinese labourers and tradespersons in the past move to where the work is.

Yes but none of that was explicit to people midgebabe - my point is that it's very easy if your life is a bit shit to have no idea what the EU actually does for your own circumstances. The people on the vocal remain side tend to be those who want their kids to study abroad, who work across several countries or could do in their career, etc etc. And led by idiotic types like lbc's james o' band his ridiculous 'gammon' crap.
Maybe remain could accept some responsibility for just assuming the referendum result was a given.

Wow! I'm surprised at Leavers Vitriol rather than attempting understanding and explanation. I am not British, not living in the UK but I am being hugely, negatively affected by Brexit. I would really like to understand what the attraction is to cause this terrible situation for us, let alone yourselves. I have no hope of figuring this out on my own as I have been brought up on a small island which needs all the allies it can get. We are too small to be self sufficient and so for years we accepted our closest neighbours support even though it gave them a sense of superiority. Given the option of being part of Europe we take it with gratitude because we are stronger with more numbers/more friends.

So, Britain is not that much bigger than Ireland but you are still an island. Yes, you were an empire but that was a very long time ago and that really just means you were a strong and successful bully. You didn't leave any love of Britain in your colonies and in fact did some shameful and lasting damaging things to those countries you bullied into submission (i will not digress into the insult to injury that is your current lack of understanding/education as to your own devastating and recent damage to your nearest neighbour). So the empire aspect is moot. You are an island. Luckily though, you are close to Europe which gives you such advantages for business and leisure.

I cannot see why you would not want to be part of a bigger whole. So be snippy leavers, but try to understand that many ordinary folk just do not have any grasp of your reasoning for wanting to leave Europe which I think is nearly all advantages and no negatives.

Fwiw I earn minimum wage, have struggled to make ends meet for years but as bad as these years have been we would have been far worse off without the help of Europe.

It has been over two years since the vote, people's thought processes have probably changed in that time.

I do wonder what percentage of the leave vote just wanted to voice their displeasure with the then Tory government. The strong remain city I live in is nothing like some of the ex industrial cities in the North. I'm feeling like government don't represent me now with Brexit, but some cities up north must have felt the government hadn't represented them for years.

I don't support Brexit, but the majority did, and maybe we just need to get on with it and put a long term plan in to regenerate areas of the country that have felt long neglected.

...although it's a good idea intellectually, it's ahead of its time.

What can I say but I'm a pessimist.

Op here,
I live in scotland where the majority voted to remain, all my friends and family voted to remain so have no one to talk to in RL about reasons to leave.
In Scotland immigration is an asset so difficult to understand it any other way.
Also, being Scottish, I am not bitter about being on the losing side because we never get what we vote for up here as we are completely outnumbered, I am used to never getting what I vote for. So am not poking a hornets nest so to speak.
Thought I would ask here to ask a wider pool of voters and get a positive view on leaving the EU.

{Maybe remain could accept some responsibility for just assuming the referendum result was a given.}

Why should people who voted remain have to take any responsibility for the total crap that the Leave voters have brought on the UK and Europe?

Argh threads like this do make me cross. They are just so utterly biased and intolerant. I am and always have been an ardent Remainer and am incredibly anxious about the impact of a potential Brexit on my family and the broader economy. However....it is very frustrating that over and over again, the Leavers are denied the chance to speak without Remainers jumping in and cutting them down, either through passive aggressive comments, sarcasm or outright attack. It completely defeats the point of trying to hear their arguments and yes, it does deepen the divides. Nobody comes out looking good because when under attack, everybody goes into fight (arsiness) or flight (retreat and say nothing) mode. If this were a discussion amongst my DCs, no matter if 1 were painfully obviously 'right' in what they were saying, I would never let him shout over the top of the other who was trying to make his point. I would ask them to stay completely silent and listen and then, make their own point.

Now - I appreciate that the stakes are huge in this. I as much as any Remainers feel very emotional when I hear what some of the Leavers say. But I still want them to have the chance to say it. For them to listen silently to what I'm saying. And then all opinions should be directed at those who have the power to do anything about it e.g. the MPs, or the polls if they arise....not each other.

Can threads like these not be reserved exclusively for Leavers?

Right, vent over. Back to rocking in my corner and awaiting catastrophe....

I voted leave.

I wouldn’t even try to discuss my thoughts and reasons on a thread like this. Despite the nicey nice ‘I’d like to know why’ the truth is you don’t want to. You don’t care why, you won’t even properly read any leavers’ posts. It will just be an opportunity to call us stupid and start a fight.

I voted leave because of freedom of movement. We should have the right to control and limit the number of people who want to live and work here, granting access based on skills we need, not their passport colour.

I have had many years experience working with medical professionals who have been trained in countries all over the world. Freedom of movement prevents regulators from checking competence in medical skills and professional language skills of EU nationals. Everyone else has to prove their competency by either being trained in the UK or passing UK based tests (IELTS, PLAB etc).

Freedom of movement allows doctors to work unsupervised and without proving language skills, whereas UK trained and non EU doctors have to be supervised for 2 years before they can have an unrestricted licence.

More mistakes and erasures of registrations are happening with EU nationals than non EU nationals, even though they make up a smaller proportion of the workforce.

This is just one example of how freedom of movement has tied our hands - letting people live and work in our country who otherwise wouldn't be admitted.

Georgie
I don’t think for a minute that leave voters are stupid but I do find it frustrating that leave voters don’t want to share their reasons. I absolutely care why. Please explain, It’s like pulling teeth!

Whatnow40

Thank you

And I'm sick of the suggestion that I must now have changed my mind or that I've been duped with fake news, am stupid or old. I'm none of these things.

"Op here,
I live in scotland where the majority voted to remain, all my friends and family voted to remain so have no one to talk to in RL about reasons to leave. "

As I recall, two out of every five votes in Scotland were to leave. Surely it can't be that hard to find a leave voter to talk to.

What now

I agree, 17.4 million people voted and to consider them all stupid is ridiculous and only increases hostility. We need to start talking and understanding each other.

Nometal

It is

Op, If a fair chunk of Scotland can feel unhappy that a "parcel of rogues" sold their birthright for the biblical mess of pottage more than 300 years after the Act of Union why would I hope that 28 disparate countries could coexist politically ?

Noeuf I know that people didn’t understand where a lot of fault lies.

But telling people facts , however hard you try, doesn’t work. you can’t fix feelings with facts, and what leave promised above all was hope.

I live in an area with is a conservative safe seat. I don’t think it’s ever been any different and will never change. My vote goes unnoticed in every single election I’ve ever voted in. I just have to suck it up. Do you think I go around quizzing and belittling people for voting Tory? I wish I could but rightfully they’d tell me to MMOB.

Freedom of movement allows doctors to work unsupervised and without proving language skills, whereas UK trained and non EU doctors have to be supervised for 2 years before they can have an unrestricted licence

That is interesting WhatNow40, i wound up in hospital recently with an emergency dealing with several doctors. One of them, who seemed to have the deciding vote as to treatment had appalling English. I could not understand her (despite her screaming: you get me? After every sentence) and felt awkward that I was in that position. Fortunately I got bumped along to a native english speaker (private healthcare triumphing for once). Although I would have put money on it that the poor English speaker was non eu!

Not enough of a reason to change the whole direction of a country though! Campaign for changing standards. Not narrowing channels into and out of your small island!

Freedom of movement does not prevent anyone from checking that your potential em0loyee is fit for the role, and that includes speaking the required language.