I want to leave the EU because....

[Fatasfook]

Personally I don’t but I have never heard a good reason to leave and I really want to, the mantra seems to be “we won so deal with it”
So if you are a leaver then please finish this sentence
I want to leave the EU because....

{ "like all leavers so far" }
Was referring to the fact that in 3 years of discussions, 17 million 'leave' voters have failed to come up with any tangible solutions that don't destroy the UK economy.
The wait continues.

Can we please stop talking about mythical "unicorns" and look at the reality...?

www.bbc.com/news/education-47734733

And this is even before you've left.

Show me an EU country where this is reality also.

I don't know of one and I live on continental EU.

The title of the link.

Nearly three million children in poverty despite parents working

Nothing to do with EU but British Govt. austerity measures....

I think this is a good summary of reasons to leave
briefingsforbrexit.com/ten-reasons-that-justify-the-uks-decision-to-leave-the-european-union/

I read it @Amiable . Screechy sloganeering

Amiable
What a load of crap that article spouts.

One, the EU is a fundamentally protectionist trading bloc

Yes, as a member you get the benefits of free trade with 70 countries.

Two, the EU seriously misallocates resources

It probably does, but the UK government are hardly shining light. Ships anyone?

Three, the EU is a political project that is fundamentally anti-democratic,

So that fact that every MEP is elected and the 'heads' are selected by MEPs is non democratic, quite apart from the fact the EP only deals with some of the member states legislation.

Four, is the ‘purposive’ nature of EU law

What?

Five, is the folly of introducing the euro

The UK has a veto on that and would never join the Euro.

Six, is the demographic ageing of the EU’s population,

The same as the UK and most of the world.

Seven, the EU has inadvertently encouraged regional separatist movements to develop in a number of member states

Some proof needed. Meddling by Russia and elements from the USA need to be eaxamined.

Eight, is increasing Euroscepticism in the EU

With what relevance? Everybody 'moans' about something.

Nine, the EU has been blamed for the tension between Russia and the Ukraine

By who? I think Russia bombing parts of the Ukraine is more relevant than some 'tension'.

Finally, there is massive corruption in the EU, 

Undoubtedly there will be the same as in the the UK, the point being?

So, from that list which elements really justify the UK committing economic suicide?

Thank you LeClerc, your response is EXACTLY why I am a staunch Remainer... oh yes, and the fact I have a German husband, with whom I have 2 kids, and the fact I work for a company with suppliers in Europe, and the fact I think Brexit is probably the worst thing that could ever happen to the UK... but apart from that I can't think of a single reason to stay!!

I did try and find some reasonable arguments to leave, but honestly, this is the best I could come up with!

which elements really justify the UK committing economic suicide

UK was supposed to disappear of the map just by daring to vote leave. Never happened.

There will never be a policy/law/referendum that pleases everyone. However, if there are more winners than losers then the policy was correct.

{UK was supposed to disappear of the map just by daring to vote leave. Never happened.}

With such childish answers to figurative statements it is pretty obvious that the UK is in serious trouble. Try reading something a bit more informed than the Express or Mail.

The likes of the ERG want to cause chaos, as they are using the instability of the financial markets to make a lot of money. All of the statements made by the PM and some others cause ripples in the money markets and the financial bods make millions. (JRM about 7 Million in the last year or two). That is before the 'big one' when there is a risk of a financial crash, where they will make a LOT more money.
Although they are interconnected, the EU is about people and not just money. If you want to be a miserable arse sitting at home, fine, but don't bugger up the opportunities for our children and everyone else in the UK and due to the cost of preparations, the 500 Million across the EU.

Seven, the EU has inadvertently encouraged regional separatist movements to develop in a number of member states

I have to agree somewhat with this statement.

Having travelled through Europe last year there were areas that made Brexit look decidedly mild.

The signs were everywhere and the tension was palpable. It was though it was going to kick off at any moment.
If I, a “tourist” to the area and not someone who lived there or spoke the language fluently was picking up the feeling I think if you lived there permanently I would be feeling a bit nervous.
I do think the EU is sweeping this part of its problems under the proverbial carpet.

In France I am not surprised about what is happening now. (Do speak a bit of French, enough to converse).
Even if I spoke no French at all the prices were astronomical and I was left wondering how people were able to feed themselves.
Made doubly hard by the fact before the Euro was introduced France was a relatively cheap place to live or holiday.

Oliversmumsarmy

Interesting comments about France but you need to be wary linking your observations. Yes it is more expensive than in the UK for many things, but I have a feeling that overall it is roughly equivalent.
The adoption of the Euro in itself did not change the costs.
Taxes are high, but I believe that when you understand the 'system' you can claim back for many things and the government is more supporting. It is certainly a different approach to the UK.

I know quite a lot of Brexiteers and the reason most of them cite is to do with the power and control of Europe and the corruption that has consequently crept in. If you are a poor member state and have been 'saved' by becoming part of the EU , then you no longer have any autonomy. You are told to jump, you ask ' how high' . You are basically held forever by the short and curlies. Some see the positives in these countries being lifted out of poverty, but the opportunities for corrupt and powerful people to assert control become greater and greater. We have to understand that many leaders that push to get into these powerful positions are people who enjoy being in control, they are not all just interested in the needs and wishes of the electorate.
At present, the power sits heavily with Germany, who are investing massively around the world, whilst keeping their middle classes in austerity. My parents generation do not feel comfortable at all with the seat of power sitting in Germany and you do not have to be a genius to work out why. I do not understand it all but if you Google the former Greek finance minister and listen to him talking about this you might be more enlightened. It is the negative power of the Union, not the positives that are scaring the people I talk to, and the fact that the EU are making it virtually impossible for us to leave the club is an example of the power they have.

UK economy is 5th in the World, but in terms of Purchase Power Parity (how far your money goes relative to the cost of living in the country you reside) is 9th in the World.

In 1980 EU was about 24% of World GDP. If you add the countries who have joined EU since then it would have been about 30%.

By 2016 (the referendum year) EU is about 16% of World GDP and declining even though EU has expanded from 9 to 28 countries over the same period. Odd.

Explanation is simple the Countries outside the EU are growing faster than the EU.

That UK is 5th GDP of the World, but only 9th in PPP is that it is a net contributor to the EU whereas as other are net takers. Look up the PPP growth of the EE countries since they joined the EU. They have done better than the UK.

Same explanation as before. How does a person with a million pounds gain by opening a joint account with someone who has 5 pounds?

{and the fact that the EU are making it virtually impossible for us to leave the club is an example of the power they have.}
Leaving the EU is not a problem at all.
This talk of being 'kept in' is simply a weird form of paranoia or a pathetic excuse for the government who have monumentally fucked up all the negotiations so far.
To leave, the UK negotiators would have to have a good workable plan. 3 years down the line and this has not appeared yet. It would then take probably 5 or more years of negotiations, using the WA as an outline, to thrash out what is to go and what might be good to keep.
Of course there are problems in and out of the EU, but you have to be very careful to separate wishes and emotions from reality.
The 'power' in some industries could have been with the UK. Germany has natural resources and a long history of engineering. The UK probably couldn't compete 'like for like' in that field. The problems faced by France, Spain, Greece are all different and it is wrong to claim they are the same when the only visible 'noise' are protestors running around with yellow jackets on.

{Same explanation as before. How does a person with a million pounds gain by opening a joint account with someone who has 5 pounds?}
The million pounds attracts a better interest rate so the 5 pounds would benefit form an enhanced rate.

OP, instead of yet another thread in which anyone admitting to voting leave may be called thick, racist, bigoted etc, why not have a thread asking those who just did not bother to vote why they thought this matter so unimportant? Now that's something that would be of interest.

Interesting comments about France but you need to be wary linking your observations. Yes it is more expensive than in the UK for many things, but I have a feeling that overall it is roughly equivalent

I think if you look at day to day living I dispute things are equivalent to the UK. I think the only cheap thing in France is the housing. Take out of the equation and just look at things you buy each day/week and then the prices start climbing.

When you go for a sandwich and you are getting charged nearly £10, cheapest was £7.50. You know you are in a very expensive country. (Think Paris is the most expensive city on earth)

Used to love France. Can actually speak French. But couldn’t drive fast enough to get out of the place as we couldn’t afford Petrol, hotels, food or pretty much anything. Wandering around the local supermarkets and the prices were eye watering.
Don’t know if it still is going but wasn’t there a business that made it cheaper to buy your weekly shop from Tesco’s Dover and they drove it over to a town in Northern France and you drove out to collect it from the back of the van.

When it is cheaper to do that then you know the pricing is too much

and the fact that the EU are making it virtually impossible for us to leave the club is an example of the power they have.

This is a really interesting point, because it is often mentioned, but there is no evidence to bear it out whatsoever.
The EU have repeatedly mentioned their sorrow at the UK's decision and their (natural) solidarity with Eire, but they are not preventing the UK from leaving.
Recent signs show increasing impatience for it to happen, understandably enough, but the UK's inability to withdraw from the EU is solely down to the incompetence of its governing and political class.

.... The EU is heading for economic ruin and I don't want to be shackled to the Titanic?
Think on.

If you try to buy the kind of products you find at Tesco in France, then you will pay high prices. If you go to markets and know where to shop, and if you eat like French people always used to (although that is changing), then it's no more expensive than the UK.
Paris prices bear little relation to those in the rest of France. Hotel prices have risen in France, but they have elsewhere, too, and changing habits mean little family run hotels in small towns (zero or one star rating), where you got good basic rooms and meals, have been driven out by big, rip-off chains like Accor, etc.
The pound has also lost value, so UK tourists' purchasing power has fallen. Because of Brexit.

The million pounds attracts a better interest rate so the 5 pounds would benefit form an enhanced rate

That’s the point. The person who contributed £5 to the pot has an advantage, but the person who put in £1 million has no advantage as he will get the same interest rate without needing the £5 contribution.

Using Paris as an example is not a good way to compare things.
Petrol was about the same price as the UK a couple of years back but the administration before Mr Macron was attempting to kickstart a 'green' revolution by putting a lot of extra tax on fuel. The first jump put it a bit more expensive than the UK, but the second jump, which was due in January? prompted to people in rural areas to instigate the GJ protests. Having to travel 10 miles to your nearest shops gets very expensive but why should people who live and work in rural areas be penalised especially as they do not benefit from decent public transport and internet etc? Decimating small villages to 'concentrate' people in cities is not the way forward.

I don’t watch much about Brexit so forgive me if I have missed something but every time I see anything about Brexit but with regards to us leaving has anyone noticed the dance that is going on.

UK asks for more discussions about something with the EU.
EU or one particular guy (Junker or someone like that) says absolutely No Way.

UK says ok but we will have to leave without a deal.

EU says well alright we will discuss it and be open to negotiation.

UK says this is what we want

EU says no way

UK says ok we will go with no deal

EU says ok we will give you whatever.

Probably loads happened in between but every time I see any news it is either one or the other statement coming from one side or the other.

I actually wasn’t using Paris as a comparison in what I saw. Just that it came out as the most expensive city in the world

I was using the Tesco analogy because Brie cheese was cheaper in the UK than in France.

French apples were cheaper being transported to the UK and then back to France than going to any market stall.

Interesting that you think the cost of living is comparable to the UK.

Do you think that the Gilet Jaune who are trying to raise awareness about the cost of living are just not shopping in the right places.

Oliversmumsarmy that's odd, because I've not seen that.
Which highlights another key issue around Brexit: the media bubbles we now live in where our information sources have become so different (and so tailored to our existing opinions, politics, etc.) that we inevitably have radically different visions of an increasingly undecodable reality.
Everything I have read shows that Barnier has said no deal is now very likely. He's not trying to hold the UK back from leaving.

The EU are still waiting for a plan that might have a chance of being voted by UK MPs. Not MEPs, MPs.

May drew impossible red lines, refused to honour the UK's role as guarantor of the GFA, and then pretty much made as big a mess as could be imagined of the negotiations.
She could have exploited differences of opinion among EU member states, but instead she reinforced their solidarity as a block and damaged the UK's reputation for years to come.

I've not seen the dance you describe.