I want to leave the EU because....

[Fatasfook]

Personally I don’t but I have never heard a good reason to leave and I really want to, the mantra seems to be “we won so deal with it”
So if you are a leaver then please finish this sentence
I want to leave the EU because....

Mldgbabe I think you need to ask why it is cheaper to buy a house in the north You'd be surprised at how deprived and desolate some northern towns really are if you've not travelled much out of your local area. Austerity has hit already poor communities like bolton, burnley and rochdale much more acutely than nice home counties towns. As regards commuting costs, not sure how it compares with the south but the quality of service provided up here is atrocious ie northern rail debacle

{UK can control who enters the UK. Mass immigration has wrecked the UK. Even the labour government who was in power between 1997 and 2010 have acknowledged that it was a mistake.}

So why is it the EU's 'fault' that the sovereign UK government can't manage immigration? Emergency powers are available and it could have been controlled at any time.

{UK can gain access to cheaper goods. Existing tariffs make; food, clothing and footwear more expensive for the least well off in the UK, but they represent a high % of the expenditure of those who are the least well off.}

Dropping tariffs will also kill off UK manufacturing as tariffs work both ways.

{UK will not have to pay EU membership fees. Can't see the benefit of putting money into a pot only for weaker Countries to take from the same pot. For example how would someone with a million pounds gain from opening a joint account with someone else who has one pound?}
The return on 'investment' of the UK payment is something like 6 or 8 times what is paid into the EU. It is realised as 'facilitation' (ability to trade tariff free with 70 countries being part of it) rather than 'cash'.

{EU represents about 17% of total world trade. So trade outside the EU represents 83%.}
This is far too simplistic. The UK can't ramp up manufacturing hugely as it does not have the resources, either raw materials or skilled workers.

{Is now a good time to point out that despite very high levels of immigration, the unemployment rate is extremely low and wages are risinG? }

Now would be a good time to point out that the way the government calculates 'employed' has been shifted so that someone working a handful of hours a week for minimum wage counts as employed. They obviously can't afford much beyond food, let along decent housing. If the high employment was for proper pay, then there would be no homelessness or need for food banks.

So why is it the EU's 'fault' that the sovereign UK government can't manage immigration? Emergency powers are available and it could have been controlled at any time

Labour did not control anything. Remember the famous note that said "there is no money left"

The return on 'investment' of the UK payment is something like 6 or 8 times what is paid into the EU

So why does UK not increase it's contribution if for every pound that goes into EU there is between 6 and 8 pounds coming back?

The UK can't ramp up manufacturing hugely as it does not have the resources, either raw materials or skilled workers

This is a valid point. As UK has moved away from manufacturing to services there has been less investment in manufacturing.

The main reason I want to leave the EU is because I think that government decision making should be as local as possible. It works better that way in my view.

What do people think of initiatives like this?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-47667621/training-britons-to-take-the-jobs-eu-migrants-are-leaving

In my opinion it is a benefit of Brexit for the individuals involved - although I do acknowledge that there are downsides for the economy as a whole. It's a balance.

With much of my fortune in off shore trusts, I am very glad to be rid of the EU and their pesky anti tax avoidance directives.

I think people who voted leave wanted to have a voice and to be listened to, but that just isn't happening.

Making it into an academic intellectualised debate just alienates people even further.

The EU debates are in my opinion a red herring and the real issue is why so many people expressed dissatisfaction with the status quo.

{So why does UK not increase it's contribution if for every pound that goes into EU there is between 6 and 8 pounds coming back?}

Because, if you had read what I said later, the 'money' (which isn't actually money, much of it is services) is 'paid in' and in return the UK receives other services. To enable the comparison monetary values were placed on the transactions but in reality no cash is paid over the counter but exists as paper 'loans'.
For the EU regional development fund, which gets 'paid' to towns/areas of hardship, the money is not sent from Brussels, but the amount the UK would 'pay' to the EU has the sum reduced. In return the actual 'cash' is paid by the UK government. There have been issues in Wales for example where the UK government has failed to pass the money over to the Welsh.

"The EU debates are in my opinion a red herring and the real issue is why so many people expressed dissatisfaction with the status quo."

I think a lot of people would be satisfied with a status quo. It is the extent that the EU has evolved from its EEC origins, and continues to evolve, that many people were/are dissatisfied and uneasy with.

{What do people think of initiatives like this? }
Excellent of course, but as an observation Germany has been training workers since WW2 which is the main reason that it is the manufacturing powerhouse that it is.
It is only the catastrophic short sighted stupidity of the UK governments over decades that have not ensured the UK trains in a similar dedicated fashion.
Being a member of the EU has not held Germany back, what is the reason the UK can't do the same?

{I think a lot of people would be satisfied with a status quo. It is the extent that the EU has evolved from its EEC origins, and continues to evolve, that many people were/are dissatisfied and uneasy with.}

Failing to understand that the 'Economics' part of the EU is only a means to achieving the original purpose of what has now become the EU, a social project to enable all Europeans to live in 'safety' as far as possible.

The world is full of opportunities but what is most disgusting is the 'leavers' wish to remove the opportunity for everyone else.
By all means sit in a corner and complain that the UK government doesn't give you more hand outs, but stop transferring this miserly attitude to our children and everyone who wants to broaden their world.

leclerc when you post quotes if you put an asterisk * either side it bolds it. Not sure if the brackets are your choice though

Thank you, the brackets of that 'style' are my choice. The UK is not a police state yet.

That's a really weird response - lots of posters don't know how to use the fonts etc. But crack on with your paranoid responses to polite offers of information.

"The world is full of opportunities but what is most disgusting is the 'leavers' wish to remove the opportunity for everyone else.
By all means sit in a corner and complain that the UK government doesn't give you more hand outs, but stop transferring this miserly attitude to our children and everyone who wants to broaden their world."

This is why you want to leave the EU?

{This is why you want to leave the EU?}

I don't want to leave the EU.
I do however think the UK needs to leave the EU until the UK government grows up and engages properly with it, particularly if it wishes to be at the top table.

You could follow my reasoning for this on various MN threads by looking for the curly brackets I use when quoting/cut and past from other posts .

Remainer but I know a few who voted leave and that was because of a more local issue which since the vote has been resolved so for them they think Brexit is working

Reasons I have seen for leaving:

More regulation on free movement, for example doctors having to sit a few extra modules to keep them in line with UK rules etc.
Create our own laws on employment
Trade with other countries and have more money by putting in our own trade deals.
Some of my elderly patients remember the war and can't bring themselves to vote to be part of the EU and are scared of another war.
Oh and "get the polish out" thanks DP's grandma, she now realises that's not exactly how leaving the EU works

I don't actually know the logistics behind ANY of these reasons but people voted for their own reasons and that's fine. I did vote remain but understand we all voted for what we wanted and we have to accept that whatever the reasons now.

There is a book called How To Lose A Referendum. Gives a really good understanding of the reasons people voted to leave. Worth a read

I want to leave the EU so to watch the leavers suffer from their stupidity. Other than that no wish to leave.

^ and there you go! Exactly why some Leavers aren’t prepared to discuss their reasons.

Since the likelihood of leaving is very high, it would be more productive to be making realistic plans about how the UK gets out of the hole it will be in rather than continuing the 'we won, get over it' mantra.
If you remember the note that the departing Labour chancellor left, that there was no money, it is now worse, not only is there no money but there are massive bills to be paid and the means of creating wealth (industry) are about to move out.
Better get thinking now.

I have a good idea of what the north looks like, I still call it home, and I would not care to label Crook in County Durham any more poverty stricken than Lowestoft in Suffolk. Austerity has hit the poor hardest, independent of where they live.

is it really so difficult to think that freedom of movement , Erasmus etc don't figure in everyone's lives. The idea of a job abroad or a lengthy period of travel is alien and unachievable.

I must say I have a real intolerance for this argument. I've moved to other countries 4 times in my life: 3 times for work, of which twice to other EU countries. Both of those times, it was because there was a shortage of work in my sector and the choice was to sign on for benefits or look further afield. I'm talking about skilled manual work, nothing very fancy. Both times I was pretty broke and stayed in shared accommodation with people in a similar situation while I got on my feet and started earning again. Both times I came back to the UK once things here had changed. This was in the pre-internet era - it would be a great deal easier nowadays to get info in advance about jobs and accommodation. This is very comparable with the reasons why people from elsewhere in the EU come here looking for work or opportunities. The traffic is not all one way.

There is a particular attitude among some Brits that they shouldn't have to put themselves out at all to get work, whether that relates to travel abroad and learning languages or localised travel and upskilling, and I have no time for it. There was a time when people would commonly work away in the week and only come home at weekends, in order to put food on the table (both my father and my partner's did that at various points in our childhood). East Europeans with skills to offer and decent English, who travel hundreds or thousands of miles to find work, either with families in tow or alone in order to send money home, are doing exactly the same, just updated for a globalised world.

It's true that the government (our government, not the EU) should do, and should have done, more to protect jobs and industry in the regions, just as they should do more to ensure decent availability of school places, GP appointments and public services of all sorts, but this readiness to blame incomers for a perceived paucity of opportunities is really lazy and hateful, imo.

Actually I've just thought of a ridiculous EU law I'd like to get rid of, the stupid cookie warnings that block the screen and tell you nothing. Just Get Rid.