I want to leave the EU because....

[Fatasfook]

Personally I don’t but I have never heard a good reason to leave and I really want to, the mantra seems to be “we won so deal with it”
So if you are a leaver then please finish this sentence
I want to leave the EU because....

MIdgebabe JUst a pity that the London bubble is nothing to do with the eu. A pity that people think that more money would go to the regions without the eu. More money could have gone to the regions without asking permission of the eu. Just needed our politicians to do it.

Just a pity that immigration could have been halved even within the eu but somehow immigration is the fault of eu not the choices of our politicians . We just needed our politicians to do it.

Just a pity that people blamed the eu for the choices of our politicians

Just a pity that people seem to think the eu made choices without any impact from our politicians

Whenever people raised any of these issues politicians of every side of the political spectrum pointed to Brussels and said "It's not our fault the EU said we have to do it or can't do it (whichever was applicable) - blame the EU not us" and they have done this for years. UK politicians found the EU an easy scapegoat to blame for policies they themselves wanted to enact without defending or explaining to the public. Little wonder that many members of the public had a jaundiced view of the EU.

I do find it frustrating that leave voters don’t want to share their reasons.

Speaking for myself, I've explained my reasons over and over on different threads under different names. And I'm sick and tired of being called a thick racist xenophobic Little Englander who is too old to be allowed to vote. So excuse me if I don't want to play any more.

3. They see remainers prattling on about abstract concepts like Freedom of Movement and Erasmus and wonder wtf that is, it sounds pretentious.}

So google doesn't work if you are a leave voter?

{1. They’ve been shat on in life- many live in post-industrial areas where inward investment has been minimal.}

So many, like Irish, Polish and Chinese labourers and tradespersons in the past move to where the work is.

I really dislike this attitude. In many ways I’m a typical remainer. I’m middle class, my parents could afford holidays in Europe and I went to university. I know about Erasmus, I don’t find it pretentious as it was an actual possibility to participate. I think brexit is a really bad thing including for work of everyone in the uk.

However I like in the North of England attended a comprehensive school. I’m in an area that voted leave. There aren’t many jobs It’s easy to say “move”, much more difficult in practice. If you don’t have very many skills then it isn’t easy to find any job, there are costs of moving, especially to places in the uk with more jobs. A lot of the economic migrants in the UK come as single young people, can live in cramped conditions for a while. The leave voters in my area have families and can’t just up and leave. Rightly or wrongly some people felt that they could never compete with European migrants who could afford to accept lower wages. Our school wasn’t great with languages so they didn’t have option to exercise freedom of movement to work in the EU.

If you google Erasmus it’s only so good as feeling secure enough about going abroad, when you are already really worried about student debt - see also my comment about not being confident with other languages.

Fisheries is actually one of few good reasons to leave - and the main reason the Iceland, the Faroes and Norway aren't members; they still have sovereignty over their own (well stocked) waters and aren't likely to conceed it any time soon. They have all managed to negotiate deals to sell their fish into other European countries.

For the record, I voted remain, as to my mind the downsides of leaving outweigh the upsides. But there could be some upsides, to pretend that there are no good points to leaving is pretty disingenuous.

{I really dislike this attitude. In many ways I’m a typical remainer}

I needed a job, so I moved to go and get one.
Why should you expect to be able to sit on your backside and expect others to sort things out for you? If you want something you make the effort and work to get it.

Romanians, Lithuanians and others can put the effort in to travel a thousand miles or so to pick veg in the UK, how come it is impossible for the UK unemployed to do the same?

My mum wanted bendy bananas. Everyone else I spoke to was fed up of immigration and not getting a doctor's appointment.

Because as I was told (when working in a shop in South Kensington at one point c.1999) the British are used to ruling and the {insert other nationality here. irish in my imstance} are used to serving!

That was in answer to 1tisILeClerc last post

@Taneartagam

I would have put money on it that the poor English speaker was non eu!

The EU freedom of movement creates a loophole that prevents regulators from applying standards across the board, to all nationalities. Those who have failed to gain registration via the traditional route, can obtain freedom of movement rights via marriage. This is a known and well exploited loophole that has been upheld by our legal system. I know of a non EU doctor who failed IELTS and therefore couldn't speak/understand English to the required standard. He married a women from the Czech Republic, then moved to Ireland and worked as a waiter for 1 week. Resubmitted an application for registration as a doctor with EC right to freedom of movement. GMC refused initially and it went to a judicial review, where they lost.

Doctor had the registration and right to then work unsupervised, as a locum etc. People have died because of unsupervised doctors who have not proved they are competent prior to registration. The political push back is that duty of care exists with the employer to ensure they are fit to practice and report concerns. In practical terms, it's a broken system. People die. And like I said, this is just one example of why I voted to leave.

Romanians, Lithuanians and others can put the effort in to travel a thousand miles or so to pick veg in the UK, how come it is impossible for the UK unemployed to do the same?

Maybe the influx of people from Eastern Europe was the reason people in the UK became unemployed?

If you want something you make the effort and work to get it

So what was the advantage of the EU being expanded from 6 strong countries to 28, half of which only make up 5% of the total EU Economy?

Or in more simple terms;

What is the benefit to someone with a million pounds opening a joint account with someone who has one pound?

I see can the benefit for the poorer person, but not for the more wealthy person.

Following on from the foreign doctors/languages point... I'm partially deaf. I have been since I was a child. For the most part it doesn't bother me. I learned to lip read as a child without realising I was doing it. In my head, when you speak to me, I hear words but if I'm not looking at you I can't hear you. My brain literally translates what my eyes see into words my brain hears.

Whenever I see an Indian Doctor, regardless of whether he is looking at me or not I can't make head nor tail of a single word he is uttering. Not one word unless it is written down. I don't have this issue with English accents I am less familiar with and I've never met an EU Doctor I couldn't understand. I don't for one second believe non-EU doctors are better trained in the English language than Non-British EU Doctors.

I want to leave the EU because......

UK can make it's own laws as will be free from the ECJ.

UK can control who enters the UK. Mass immigration has wrecked the UK. Even the labour government who was in power between 1997 and 2010 have acknowledged that it was a mistake.

UK can gain access to cheaper goods. Existing tariffs make; food, clothing and footwear more expensive for the least well off in the UK, but they represent a high % of the expenditure of those who are the least well off.

UK will not have to pay EU membership fees. Can't see the benefit of putting money into a pot only for weaker Countries to take from the same pot. For example how would someone with a million pounds gain from opening a joint account with someone else who has one pound?

EU represents about 17% of total world trade. So trade outside the EU represents 83%.

However, there are downsides too. Biggest one being that it will not be an overnight transition. Even the most pro Brexit MP, Jacob Rees Mogg, has estimated that it will take about 50 years before UK feels the full benefit of Brexit.

So what was the advantage of the EU being expanded from 6 strong countries to 28, half of which only make up 5% of the total EU Economy?

It wasn't an expansion from six to 28 of course, but a more gradual expansion from initially six to 9, when the UK, Ireland and Denmark joined, later followed by Spain, Portugal, Greece etc.. Later on it was a political move pushed for by the UK, encouraged by the US, to pull the old E Europe states out of the influence of Russia.

I genuinely don't understand how people believe we can actually get a good deal to leave the EU. Our negotiation status is beyond weak. And all the countries we want to do trade with will want visas. So more immigration from non EU. So immigration will rise from those countries ( for those who voted leave, because of it)

The leave vote wasn't all about the pros and cons of EU membership.

It was also a "stick it to the man" vote expressing dissatisfaction and disenfranchisement and lack of confidence that the current political system would ever work for large chunks of the population.

Yes i know we get funding in various area but this is far less than we put in. We can fund that ourselves now

But we wouldn't. That's the point. That £39 billion will not be spent on the regions/people who need it, it will go to the Tories' mates in tax breaks.

But I did post a couple of ideas on another thread:

Can decide what products we want VAT on (or not on, like sanitary protection)

Can make our own rules about money laundering and not have stupid tick box checks which never stopped a terrorist getting money ever

Fishing, I don't know enough about it but possibly

If we could actually control immigration (and that includes from outside the EU, too) we might not need to build as many new houses. However, we'd also need incentives for people to have fewer children, as the birth rate is one of the highest in the EU so population growth isn't just about immigration, it's also about the current population having fewer children, but people don't like it when you say that.

EU wastes money. We have austerity, we cut our cloth and the EU does not. Although I would say that's a reason for reform from within.

Ok I voted remain and I can think of 4 (and a half).

Allowing Eastern European Countries to join EU was only a short term gain for the stronger EU members such as; Germany, France and the UK in that it was a source of cheap labour. Downside is that the more foreigners you allow into your own Country the fewer the jobs available for your own nationals. The nationals then turn to the government for benefits so they can survive.

In UK some people on benefits have more money in hand than what people can earn working full time.

'I believe democracy should be as localised as possible'

I think this too but only when a Government can be trusted. Sadly our Government has proven that it can't be trusted not to plunge us into dire poverty, and that's with the EU protecting our human rights and rights as workers.

expressing dissatisfaction and disenfranchisement and lack of confidence that the current political system would ever work for large chunks of the population

Exactly. For as long as UK government is made up of wealthy individuals they will never see things in the same way as the average person in the street.

'Yes i know we get funding in various area but this is far less than we put in. We can fund that ourselves now'

That money is ring fenced for social deprived people and areas and to support agricultural development etc. Our Government are now free to use it to plough more into supporting their own business interests and boosting their own personal finances. This is what the Conservatives do.

And all the countries we want to do trade with will want visas.So more immigration from non EU. So immigration will rise from those countries (for those who voted leave, because of it)

But if high-skilled immigration is prioritised (for EU and non-EU applicants) - and low-skilled immigration is curbed - I can't see a problem with that.

*{Maybe remain could accept some responsibility for just assuming the referendum result was a given.}

Why should people who voted remain have to take any responsibility for the total crap that the Leave voters have brought on the UK and Europe?*

Not those that supported Remain and voted, it's those that supported remain but couldn't be bothered to vote/just assumed it would be remain so felt they didn't need to worry about voting that should accept some responsibility - if everyone actually got out and had their day at the ballot box, the outcome may have been different

Is now a good time to point out that despite very high levels of immigration, the unemployment rate is extremely low and wages are risinG?

Low wages and income inequality could be valid questions , but not in a north / south divide way...the amount of personal, available cash is higher in the north becuase housing and commuting costs are so much lower