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Brexit

Westminstenders: Erskine Mayhem

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 19/03/2019 09:55

John Bercow has stepped in. We've long made the point, that the position of Speaker was utterly crucial to the outcome of Brexit. However this ruling was long warned as a possibility. It was somewhat overlooked by all (including me).

We are now faced with the bizarre narrative that May was just about to be able to get her deal through, and it's now simply Bercow who has tried to sabotage Brexit.

The reality is that his ruling has the effect of making BOTH no deal And a lengthy extension (possibly with a PV) much more likely.

May now has to embrace one of these option (by accident or design) or find a way to substantially change the terms of her deal as put to the Commons, either through negotiation with the EU or bolting something significantly different to her deal like a variation of the Kyle Amendment (a PV based on her deal or remain). Or find a majority to overturn the standing order that Bercow has cited as the reason for his block.

This block also might apply to the Benn amendment (indicative votes) or other PV amendments. Which could equally be problematic going forward.

In reality Bercow has upped the stakes and forced May to do something meaningful rather than simply holding a gun to MPs heads to vote. Hurrah for parliamentary Sovereignty and limiting the abuse of power of the executive!?!

It's a completely neutral move in practice. The HoC has tied itself in knots with how it's voted for political reason rather than for the national interest. The British Constitution has just stood up for itself. Bercow is just a useful target to blame for the incompetence of the entire house for the last 3 years.

The billion pound question this morning is where does that now leave us?

The honest answer is I'm damned if I know.

Maybe the EU will come up with a magic bullet for May, maybe the Cabinet can come up with a magic bullet, maybe May will take the political magic bullet of a long extension or revocation or maybe we'll just all shoot ourselves in the head and foot with no deal.

I have no idea.

10 days to go.

Westminstenders: Erskine Mayhem
OP posts:
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1tisILeClerc · 19/03/2019 14:16

{Or will the EU just keep letting us tag along, half in and half out ?}
Maybe if Farage is prevented from being an MEP.

Speaking of which, I wonder how the walk is going.

TheMostBoringPersonEver · 19/03/2019 14:24

From the last thread as I think it got missed:

Jon Worths flow chart put as GE at 40%. So extension based on her calling a GE? Because she cant call one before extension agreed because of purdah and shutting down would make us no deal, right? Or have I got that confused?

GE is also the highest likely by a long margin. 25% for peoples vote and only 15% for a No Deal. This is after Bercow and yet people are saying no deal is more likely? Just want to understand things in my head as he seems to have a totally different outcome to what is on this thread?

HazardGhost · 19/03/2019 14:24

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-vote-leave-fined-text-messages-ico-eu-referendum-a8829881.html

Vote Leave fined and reported to popo...

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 19/03/2019 14:24

Thanks red

lonelyplanetmum · 19/03/2019 14:25

Or will the EU just keep letting us tag along, half in and half out ?

Actually perhaps there's a solution.

Instability and uncertainty not great for business but fuck that.

At least it would be better than the absolute crash out.

We could then argue with each other about whether we are in or out whilst moaning and retaining the benefits....

TalkinPaece · 19/03/2019 14:29

LeClerc
LedByDonkeys are giving daily updates. Its splendid

BigChocFrenzy · 19/03/2019 14:32

Boring That flow chart is just one opinion:

Analysts here (Germany) are more pessimistic, saying No Deal is still the most likely outcome, because of the chaos in the govt & HoC.

The govt needs to develop a plan with Opposition parties, so that it can actually get through the HoC
So far, neither May nor any Tory leadership contender looks ready to do this.

CordeliaEarhart · 19/03/2019 14:32

Thanks for the link talkin. I had thought that the figures were (at least partly) based on the number of claimants of unemployment benefits, but it seems this is not the case. In which case, I trust the figures a bit more.

HazardGhost · 19/03/2019 14:35

THE alleged aptitude of the English for self-government,” wrote Bernard Shaw in his preface to Androcles and the Lion, “is contradicted by every chapter of their history.” Shaw was, of course, parodying British imperialist rhetoric and its insistence that lesser peoples – including his own nation, the Irish – were not ready to govern themselves. He was being naughtily provocative, which only the most irresponsible of commentators would dare to be in these grave times.

But there is nonetheless some tinge of truth in his words. Aptitude for self-government is not what comes to mind when one looks in from the outside at the goings-on in Westminster last week, when, as Tom Peck so brilliantly put it in the London Independent, “the House of Commons was a Benny Hill chase on acid, running through a Salvador Dali painting in a spaceship on its way to infinity”.

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-are-the-english-ready-for-self-government-1.3830474?mode=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Grin
twattymctwatterson · 19/03/2019 14:35

Pink

twattymctwatterson · 19/03/2019 14:35

Or even pmk. Stupid phone

NoWordForFluffy · 19/03/2019 14:37

Posted this on the old thread:

My mother has been sent the no deal briefing document from her MP. It looks like it's probably drawn up by the ERG, given that he voted FOR a no deal Brexit and AGAINST an extension. He's also told my mother than he's got a problem with the backstop. Nice chap.

I can email the document to anyone who wants it.

DGRossetti · 19/03/2019 14:38

Answering my own question about the referendum shelf life ... there is an argument that the 2017 election pretty much nullified it by refusing to return any clear mandate for it. Something to be borne in mind as we thrash around.

It would be an illuminated mashup to highlight how many babies have been born in the UK since 23rd June 2016 ... c. 679,000 for 2017 a few less in 2018 and half that for 2016 gives close to 1.8 million ?

If May does get an extension it'll probably top 2,000,000 ?

TokyoSushi · 19/03/2019 14:44

PMK 10 days and no plan!

1tisILeClerc · 19/03/2019 14:46

{LeClerc
LedByDonkeys are giving daily updates. Its splendid}
Thank you. If I put my 'Leaver' hat on I would expect you to deliver this info and with a side order of strawberries and cream. As it is I am attempting (not very successfully as even getting the washing in is more exciting) to do some work.

Sostenueto · 19/03/2019 14:50

May has announced she will definitely NOT revoke and is writing a letter to Tusk about extension.Sad

TalkinPaece · 19/03/2019 14:51

LeClerc
I have to say that of the Anti-Brexit groups, Led By Donkeys are wiping the floor with the establishment types.
By not getting into detailed debate, not doing project fear, by coming from the North East and by merely quoting people's own words
they are hitting the spot with people far more effectively than any sort of detailed analysis.
Leave won because they hit hearts not heads
From the look on Farage's face on the bus on that first day, I think LBD have done the same back.
Shame its so late in the day
but there is still time

Sostenueto · 19/03/2019 14:55

Just when will HoC get time to vote and debate a PV? May will not allow it.

DGRossetti · 19/03/2019 14:56

May has announced she will definitely NOT revoke and is writing a letter to Tusk about extension

Which will be decided next week ?

Sorry to be cynical, but I don't place too much importance on what May says. "There will be no election" in 2017 was a pretty huge whopper to get over.

RedToothBrush · 19/03/2019 14:59

BCF I'm understanding the Kuenssberg suggestion, as extend to 30th June, with clause to extend further provided we have passed the necessary legislation and take part in EP elections at the same time as everyone else.

This gives May a basic extension with the threat of a further extension and EP elections, to back her deal with for MV3.

If we fall to legislate in time it becomes a cliff edge of her deal or no deal for a potential MV4.

If we do legislate in time, alternatives could be put forward in the longer period. Including a PV, MV4 or even Remain.

As per Ian Dunt above with his two potential opportunities for May to flog her deal.

I also put the chances of a GE very high as the Tory Party can not no confidence her internally. Hardliners may see it as an opportunity whilst Labour is suffering in the polls due to Tiggers and a depressed electorate re: Brexit and anti-semitism.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 19/03/2019 15:02

Good luck with the house sale, red 💐
I hope any Brexshit is delayed until after you have completed

OutwithMyRemit · 19/03/2019 15:04

Thanks Red!

TalkinPaece · 19/03/2019 15:06

This makes me so angry. DD is loving her Erasmus year. DS will not get one.
www.theguardian.com/education/2019/mar/19/erasmus-scheme-chaos-uk-students-limbo-funding-accommodation

havingtochangeusernameagain · 19/03/2019 15:08

Sorry to be cynical, but I don't place too much importance on what May says. "There will be no election" in 2017 was a pretty huge whopper to get over

This.

I'm pretty sure she's said she won't extend a few times, too.

And "no deal is better than a bad deal"...

BigChocFrenzy · 19/03/2019 15:08

I'd expect the Tories to be very relucatant to have another GE with May in charge

  • her GE performance may be the worst ever by a PM -

and they can't get rif of her until December unless she chooses to go.

I've been expecting she'd get Brexit through, then stand down
so she might hang on for a bit

Of course as PM, she chooses the GE date - since Corbyn would leap at any chance - but she is too weak to ignore party advice about party readiness, funds etc.

Possibly the ERG could cause a GE, by accident or design, to help force a hard Brexit with a Tory majority