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Brexit

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 12:57

We need Time!
Its the one thing we don't have.

Todays vote is on extending a50.

To the displeasure of leavers, Bercow has selected amendments:

e) Corbyn Amendment
demands the government should “provide parliamentary time for this house to find a majority for a different approach”.

h) Wollaston Amendment
cross party amendment requesting to extend to allow the ability to legislate for a PV

i) Benn Amendment
cross party backbenchers take over parliamentary time from 20th March to find a majority way forward which gives justification for an extension

j) Bryant Amendment
prevents meaningful vote III

After yesterday's vote, May is left with effectively four options:

1) Pass the WA and go for a short technical extension.
An extension would have numbers in the HoC, but passing the WA is a struggle and it's reliant on the EU granting extension which is probably viable in this circumstances.

2) Be defeated getting the WA through and be forced into asking for a long extension as a result. This would include EP elections.
This option is politically toxic to the tories and its unlikely a long extension would pass the HoC. The EU would still need a justification for a long extension - a PV would be the natural option - but not clear if that could pass the HoC. Ditto passing legislation for EP elections. Whole scenario is unlikely

3) Be forced to revoke
Tory party big red button of self destruct

4) Actively decide to pursue an illegal no deal Brexit
Let's not think of the ramification

Going through this at speed, my initial reactions to this are:

If e) passes it doesn't really make much difference to May's choices here, but Labour might have more say.

If h) passes it might make 2) more likely

If i) passes it might open up alternative options

If j) passes we might have a real issue if its the only amendment that passes - it would leave a straight choice of Revoke or No Deal UNLESS i) passes as well.

But there might be other things that are not hitting me right in the face now.

As it stands, Hard Line Brexiteers were earlier today making noises that they would now support the WA - including whispers that this would include the DUP who would be likely to set off a chain reaction of support.

However which (if any) amendments pass today could well affect whether thats even a possibility.

As a result this vote needs to carry the health warning 'Be Careful what you wish for'. What you would LIKE might be extremely high risk and might jeapordise the main vote and the chances of an extension at all.

So whilst Leavers might be unhappy about the choices, it might well ultimately work best for No Dealers. Or it could be a gift for Remainers. Bercow's selections are not necessarily biased for this reason. He does not know the outcome here. If anything it looks like he's actually trying to put more options on the table for the house, rather than allow May to dictate to the house. Which is exactly what he should be doing. He's given parliament the power.

I suspect we will not fully understand what is going on tonight EVEN MORE than last night. And it will take a short while for everyone to calibrate what the eventual result actually is going to mean.

THIS is the most important vote yet. And it has the potential its going to end up m-e-s-s-y.

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Thread gallery
31
OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 14/03/2019 15:39

Trump commenting on Brexit
I'd love to see a Venn diagram of people who moaned about Obama commenting on the referendum with those who applaud Trumps comments. I'd bet it's mainly one big circle.

lonelyplanetmum · 14/03/2019 15:40

Place Mitten of number two cat - more of a Kitten then.

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!
PestyMachtubernahme · 14/03/2019 15:40

DUBLIN (Reuters) - Ireland’s Foreign Minister Simon Coveney said on Thursday the European Union may offer Britain to delay its exit from the bloc by up to 21 months in what may lead to a “fundamental rethink” of British policy on the matter.

www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-ireland-coveney-idUSKCN1QV1EI?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5c8a74d74b738500016c1593&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

Do you think the EU already had this filed a plan F and have been waiting for us to catch up?

Holidayshopping · 14/03/2019 15:41

Why doesn’t anyone want a People’s vote!!?

lonelyplanetmum · 14/03/2019 15:42

I think consensus is we aren't ready for a PV yet - don't we need some kind of effing plan to accept or reject?

67chevvyimpala · 14/03/2019 15:42

When does it all kick off?

GingerPCatt · 14/03/2019 15:43

I don’t know how much more of this I can take.

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!
DGRossetti · 14/03/2019 15:45

I'd love to see a Venn diagram of people who moaned about Obama commenting on the referendum with those who applaud Trumps comments. I'd bet it's mainly one big circle jerk

Fixed that for you ....

lonelyplanetmum · 14/03/2019 15:47

I know it's been highlighted already but whilst waiting for today's 5 pm kick off ...people may want to put questions to the experienced specialists on the Webchat scheduled for tomorrow at10am:

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnetlivee_events/3532922-Webchat-with-three-experts-on-Brexit-and-the-EU-Friday-15-March-at-10am

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 15:48

SNP leader in the HOC:

"A shiver has run down the front bench of the Labour party looking for a spine to run up and it has not found one." 😂😂

DGRossetti · 14/03/2019 15:49

DUBLIN (Reuters) - Ireland’s Foreign Minister Simon Coveney said on Thursday the European Union may offer Britain to delay its exit from the bloc by up to 21 months in what may lead to a “fundamental rethink” of British policy on the matter.

David Davies

The UK government deeply regrets the troubles the European Union have been having accommodating the will of the British people, but is willing to extend the terms of A50 in order to allow our European partners to make appropriate arrangements for the departure of the UK from the European Union following the clear mandate of the 2016 referendum ....

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 15:51

Tim Shipman @shippersunbound
Huge World War Two bomb found at Manston airport in Kent, which rather gets in the way of the no deal planning. Bomb disposal squad on the scene

I’m told the bomb is one of ours not a Luftwaffe one. Apparently dozens have been found but this was the bomb we planted to destroy the airfield of the Nazis had invaded

There is just something divine about this.

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DGRossetti · 14/03/2019 15:51

Looks like Boris' clown shoes have been hired out Sad :

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47566898

The chief executive of Volkswagen has apologised for evoking a Nazi slogan to describe the importance of boosting the group's profits.

Herbert Diess used the line "Ebit macht frei" at a company event on Tuesday.

The phrase echoes the maxim "Arbeit Macht Frei" - meaning "work sets you free" - which was famously emblazoned in wrought-iron on the gates of the Auschwitz concentration camp.

(contd)

LouiseCollins28 · 14/03/2019 15:52

President Obama commenting before the referendum, trying to influence the result, is rather different from President Trump commenting after the outcome is known, no? I don't applaud Trumps comments particularly, but I'm not put out by them like I was by his predecessor's.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 14/03/2019 15:53

DG naughty Grin

DGRossetti · 14/03/2019 15:54

I’m told the bomb is one of ours not a Luftwaffe one. Apparently dozens have been found but this was the bomb we planted to destroy the airfield of the Nazis had invaded

HmmHmmHmmHmmHmmHmmHmmHmmHmmHmm

DGRossetti · 14/03/2019 15:56

DG naughty Grin

Still a towering edifice of intellectual might compared to the soft play going on in the HoC today.

phpolly · 14/03/2019 15:58

I’m told the bomb is one of ours not a Luftwaffe one. Apparently dozens have been found but this was the bomb we planted to destroy the airfield of the Nazis had invaded

this is priceless - you couldn't make it up

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 16:00

I think that any of the amendments passing today would throw a cat amongst the pigeons.

I don't think there is any chance of Wollastons passing. I think Corbyn's will fail because of party tribalism.

That leaves Benn's and Bryant's

Given the number of MPs who voted against the WA is difficult to work out what will happen with Bryant's. It's a real wild card. If the ERG are determined to twart May about it, they might vote for it. It will be interesting to see which hardliners do what - it potentially gives a clue as to whether they might waiver on the WA and eventually go for it.

Benn's could be close. Corbyn's will fail, but this one as a cross party venue might just have a chance. It depends on how rebellious the Tory Remainers are feeling today. I think it might sneak through by a whisker.

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LouiseCollins28 · 14/03/2019 16:03

See the size of the balls we have, we even pre-bomb our own airfields just in case! Bloody Germans, all their fault

Ing-ger-land, Ing-er-land Ing-er-land

....now now, we can't have none of that forrin muck blowing up the Garden of England can we! Our Nige' might spill his pint Grin, Ends, Ed.

DGRossetti · 14/03/2019 16:04

I’m told the bomb is one of ours not a Luftwaffe one.

How would we know ? (Not the RAF BD guys, us ...)

Apparently dozens have been found but this was the bomb we planted to destroy the airfield of the Nazis had invaded

Yeah, I struggle a bit with this. Even if the RAF were thick enough to mine their own sodding airfields, any explosives would have been decommissioned after the war - we did keep records.

If they are UK/Allied bombs, it's more likely they were dropped in error or trying to ditch - maybe aiming for the channel.

Considering how much defensive work was carried out as part of WW2, it's incredible how little remains - certainly in England. It was ripped up incredibly quickly. (Time Team did a dig along the A2 trying to find clues about defences ...)

CordeliaEarhart · 14/03/2019 16:04

I think consensus is we aren't ready for a PV yet - don't we need some kind of effing plan to accept or reject?

I agree with this. I want a PV on whatever deal HoC and the EU can actually agree on - whether that is No Deal, WA, Noway++, or something else entirely.

phpolly · 14/03/2019 16:06

Chris Bryant on his feet currently and I just came on to ask if his amendment can possibly succeed, but looking at the thread I see that I need to catch up again

bellinisurge · 14/03/2019 16:06

"Even if the RAF were thick enough to mine their own sodding airfields, any explosives would have been decommissioned after the war - we did keep records."
Scorched earth policy. Perfectly sensible. As for keeping records of every bomb, we might have been a tad busy to document every one and keep all the records and follow them up.

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 16:06

Tim Shipman @shippersunbound
One Brexit supporting Minister has given the bomb the nickname “Big Phil”. Good to see everyone is getting along

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