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Brexit

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 12:57

We need Time!
Its the one thing we don't have.

Todays vote is on extending a50.

To the displeasure of leavers, Bercow has selected amendments:

e) Corbyn Amendment
demands the government should “provide parliamentary time for this house to find a majority for a different approach”.

h) Wollaston Amendment
cross party amendment requesting to extend to allow the ability to legislate for a PV

i) Benn Amendment
cross party backbenchers take over parliamentary time from 20th March to find a majority way forward which gives justification for an extension

j) Bryant Amendment
prevents meaningful vote III

After yesterday's vote, May is left with effectively four options:

1) Pass the WA and go for a short technical extension.
An extension would have numbers in the HoC, but passing the WA is a struggle and it's reliant on the EU granting extension which is probably viable in this circumstances.

2) Be defeated getting the WA through and be forced into asking for a long extension as a result. This would include EP elections.
This option is politically toxic to the tories and its unlikely a long extension would pass the HoC. The EU would still need a justification for a long extension - a PV would be the natural option - but not clear if that could pass the HoC. Ditto passing legislation for EP elections. Whole scenario is unlikely

3) Be forced to revoke
Tory party big red button of self destruct

4) Actively decide to pursue an illegal no deal Brexit
Let's not think of the ramification

Going through this at speed, my initial reactions to this are:

If e) passes it doesn't really make much difference to May's choices here, but Labour might have more say.

If h) passes it might make 2) more likely

If i) passes it might open up alternative options

If j) passes we might have a real issue if its the only amendment that passes - it would leave a straight choice of Revoke or No Deal UNLESS i) passes as well.

But there might be other things that are not hitting me right in the face now.

As it stands, Hard Line Brexiteers were earlier today making noises that they would now support the WA - including whispers that this would include the DUP who would be likely to set off a chain reaction of support.

However which (if any) amendments pass today could well affect whether thats even a possibility.

As a result this vote needs to carry the health warning 'Be Careful what you wish for'. What you would LIKE might be extremely high risk and might jeapordise the main vote and the chances of an extension at all.

So whilst Leavers might be unhappy about the choices, it might well ultimately work best for No Dealers. Or it could be a gift for Remainers. Bercow's selections are not necessarily biased for this reason. He does not know the outcome here. If anything it looks like he's actually trying to put more options on the table for the house, rather than allow May to dictate to the house. Which is exactly what he should be doing. He's given parliament the power.

I suspect we will not fully understand what is going on tonight EVEN MORE than last night. And it will take a short while for everyone to calibrate what the eventual result actually is going to mean.

THIS is the most important vote yet. And it has the potential its going to end up m-e-s-s-y.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
LonelyandTiredandLow · 14/03/2019 16:08

Hazard he might have been wiser than I gave him credit for. Last months he told me that Brexit wouldn't happen at the last minute... Which I've heard before and brushed off as nonsense and wishful thinking. Have to say, there is a glimmer now!

Love the Brexit Yoga! I thought he was going to say pack the passports and emigrate though Grin

1tisILeClerc · 14/03/2019 16:11

{How would we know ? (Not the RAF BD guys, us ...)}
If it can't decide whether to explode it's British.

GeistohneGrenzen · 14/03/2019 16:11

PMK

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 16:12

LouiseCollins Trump is trying to influence the most critical votes of the whole process

  • what is happening now will determine whether we crash out with No Deal / go WA / Revoke

He is using far more insulting language than Obama, who didn't rubbish the UK PM for not following his advice, or say how badly the issue was being handled

US Presidents always try to influence the result, when one of their poodles has an important election or ref, but never so crudely as Trump

DGRossetti · 14/03/2019 16:12

Scorched earth policy. Perfectly sensible. As for keeping records of every bomb, we might have been a tad busy to document every one and keep all the records and follow them up.

Sorry, I'd really have to see a cite to swallow that. I might be willing to believe we'd mine a decoy airfield. But putting tonnes of high explosive under a working airfield ? Where a saboteur could get at them ? HmmHmmHmmHmmHmm

Also, meticulous records were kept for almost everything - the exception being the auxiliary units that were set up autonomously so that they could not be betrayed. (The first task for the units would have been the assassination of the person that recruited them). It's possible that some remnants of their caches survived ...

prettybird · 14/03/2019 16:13

Watching the debate, I am struck by the number of Brexit supporting MPs who keep on talking about the "17.4 million" people watching who voted No.

Quite apart from the fact that this ignores the 16.1 million voters that voted Remain, they should not be using the present tense Confused

Those 17.4 million people do no exist any more. They can't all be watching or having an opinion now Confused

Demographically , because of the preponderance of older voters who voted Leave, many of them are now dead Shock ....in fact, it's been calculated at c260,000 per annum, so even if you assume only c200,000, then that's over half a million people (but probably closer to a million Shock).

......and that's before you even take into consideration those youngsters who have turned 18 since 24 June 2016 (like my own ds Wink)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-leave-eu-remain-vote-support-against-poll-uk-europe-final-say-yougov-second-referendum-peter-a8541971.html

Peregrina · 14/03/2019 16:13

Only just finished reading the last thread, and I was too late to answer. But for the person who wanted to know why our financial year ends at the end of March/5th Arpril it's because
the financial year used to end on the quarter day of 25th March. When the calendar changed, that became 5th April. Making it end on 31st March is for convenience, not having to apportion 5 days of payments to the previous month, when the amounts involved will usually be trivial.

Most other countries don't mess around like this and deal in calendar years.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 16:15

DG It is standard military doctrine to set up a means to destroy a valuable asset if there is a possibility you may be forced to abandon it, to prevent the enemy making use of it.

lonelyplanetmum · 14/03/2019 16:17

Of course another bomb that was what's missing ...
And as for DD The UK government deeply regrets the troubles the European Union have been having accommodating the will of the British people

He can fuck off and then fuck off some more.Why not pick on some other country or international grouping that doesn't let us have exactly what we want ( if we knew) on our terms if we knew what they were?

LonelyandTiredandLow · 14/03/2019 16:19

Re the bomb - wouldn't we have had to drop a bomb on the bomb to bomb the airfield though Confused

MarshaBradyo · 14/03/2019 16:19

I’ve lost track but I’m not keen on a second PV

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 16:19

Former Brexit minister George Bridges:^ MPs must choose – Withdrawal Agreement or a general election^

https://reaction.life/mps-must-choose-withdrawal-agreement-general-election/

Motheroffourdragons · 14/03/2019 16:19

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

dreichuplands · 14/03/2019 16:22

mother unless we end up with a very soft Brexit I imagine the Scots will have another referendum to consider before years and years have passed.

1tisILeClerc · 14/03/2019 16:23

{And as for DD The UK government deeply regrets the troubles the European Union have been having accommodating the will of the British people}
Since DGR posted it I read it as a spoof (cos sometimes DGR does that).

The only 'deal' that the UK will ever get is the WA. If it puts it off for another 21 months, it will still be waiting but with a little dust on it.

DGRossetti · 14/03/2019 16:23

DG It is standard military doctrine to set up a means to destroy a valuable asset if there is a possibility you may be forced to abandon it, to prevent the enemy making use of it.

I am well aware. However airfields are subject to such a wide shifts in environment (a fully laden Halifax would have shaken a few buildings) that burying a cache of HE (which we know degrades horribly) wouldn't be part of it.

There's also the fact that if a single airfield would have proved useful to the Nazis, the game was pretty much up.

Anyway, we'll never know. Some can chose to believe the official statement if that's what it says. I remain dubious having had some experience of the official statement in serious matters being a load of bollocks ...

LonelyandTiredandLow · 14/03/2019 16:27

MAybe the bomb is just a way to remind people about The War and our stoic behaviour, blah blah. National pride heaves heavily to the fore...

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 14/03/2019 16:27

PMK

Is it me, or does Anna Soubry have a rather sexy voice

It’s nice but still the sexiest voice is Geoffrey Cox (I’m avoiding googling him, I don’t want to know what he looks like).

Holidayshopping · 14/03/2019 16:28

I’m even more confused than last night!

LonelyandTiredandLow · 14/03/2019 16:28

I'd hate to divorce someone like DD - gaslighting all the way that one.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 14/03/2019 16:30

Every time I read a press article now, or anything "surprising" I imagine why someone higher up the food chain would want me to be feeling that particular emotion at that particular time...

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 14/03/2019 16:30

It’s nice but still the sexiest voice is Geoffrey Cox

Oh I can't staaaand all that Rumpole of the Bailey-ing he loves doing. I bet he's into dreadful am-dram.

DGRossetti · 14/03/2019 16:32

Since DGR posted it I read it as a spoof (cos sometimes DGR does that)

Hmm could be time for a namechange ... WMRossetti ? There's a Lizzie Siddal floating around MN, so that's taken.

Alternatively CGRossetti ?

phpolly · 14/03/2019 16:32

re DD: I remember reading an interview with his wife a few years back where she basically said she spends as little time with him as possible....

borntobequiet · 14/03/2019 16:37

Geoffrey Cox’s voice sexy? Never. He sounds like a plum pudding would if it could talk, scripted by John Mortimer after one too many glasses of port. I can’t listen to him!