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Brexit

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 12:57

We need Time!
Its the one thing we don't have.

Todays vote is on extending a50.

To the displeasure of leavers, Bercow has selected amendments:

e) Corbyn Amendment
demands the government should “provide parliamentary time for this house to find a majority for a different approach”.

h) Wollaston Amendment
cross party amendment requesting to extend to allow the ability to legislate for a PV

i) Benn Amendment
cross party backbenchers take over parliamentary time from 20th March to find a majority way forward which gives justification for an extension

j) Bryant Amendment
prevents meaningful vote III

After yesterday's vote, May is left with effectively four options:

1) Pass the WA and go for a short technical extension.
An extension would have numbers in the HoC, but passing the WA is a struggle and it's reliant on the EU granting extension which is probably viable in this circumstances.

2) Be defeated getting the WA through and be forced into asking for a long extension as a result. This would include EP elections.
This option is politically toxic to the tories and its unlikely a long extension would pass the HoC. The EU would still need a justification for a long extension - a PV would be the natural option - but not clear if that could pass the HoC. Ditto passing legislation for EP elections. Whole scenario is unlikely

3) Be forced to revoke
Tory party big red button of self destruct

4) Actively decide to pursue an illegal no deal Brexit
Let's not think of the ramification

Going through this at speed, my initial reactions to this are:

If e) passes it doesn't really make much difference to May's choices here, but Labour might have more say.

If h) passes it might make 2) more likely

If i) passes it might open up alternative options

If j) passes we might have a real issue if its the only amendment that passes - it would leave a straight choice of Revoke or No Deal UNLESS i) passes as well.

But there might be other things that are not hitting me right in the face now.

As it stands, Hard Line Brexiteers were earlier today making noises that they would now support the WA - including whispers that this would include the DUP who would be likely to set off a chain reaction of support.

However which (if any) amendments pass today could well affect whether thats even a possibility.

As a result this vote needs to carry the health warning 'Be Careful what you wish for'. What you would LIKE might be extremely high risk and might jeapordise the main vote and the chances of an extension at all.

So whilst Leavers might be unhappy about the choices, it might well ultimately work best for No Dealers. Or it could be a gift for Remainers. Bercow's selections are not necessarily biased for this reason. He does not know the outcome here. If anything it looks like he's actually trying to put more options on the table for the house, rather than allow May to dictate to the house. Which is exactly what he should be doing. He's given parliament the power.

I suspect we will not fully understand what is going on tonight EVEN MORE than last night. And it will take a short while for everyone to calibrate what the eventual result actually is going to mean.

THIS is the most important vote yet. And it has the potential its going to end up m-e-s-s-y.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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DGRossetti · 15/03/2019 09:59

The Daily Mail is also hosting the terrorist’s manifesto, again the video pop-up and advertising around, allowing readers to download it directly from their website.

Aren't there laws about extremist material online ?

RedToothBrush · 15/03/2019 10:00

Serious question whether this actually breaks the law tbh.

It's not news and in the public interest to publish this.

It's spreading material with content which is inciting racial hatred.

OP posts:
DGRossetti · 15/03/2019 10:09

I wonder if the Daily Mail didn't even bother to run it past their legal guys. After all, it's white people - so that's all right then.

Mind you, even if it does break the law, who is going to do anything about it ?

NoWordForFluffy · 15/03/2019 10:12

I've not read the legislation about this, but my instinct is that if they aren't breaking the law then they're sailing VERY close to it.

On a human note, it's utterly reprehensible and disgusting to have those videos online. It's the very worst kind of click bait and, while nothing these 'news'papers put online and in the paper surprises me (as they're low life scum), somebody really should've shown more fucking discretion in their editorial decision.

My DH's brother lives near Auckland after going on a working holiday visa about 15 years' ago and not coming back. He's married a local and has 2 DDs. It's somewhere I had considered looking at to emigrate to, but it's not feasible right now, and then I'll be too old when it is.

I feel for the New Zealanders that they've suffered this in their country.

1tisILeClerc · 15/03/2019 10:15

{The Bosnian war definitely is a fading memory and yet the legacy of it us still huge and the situation in Bosnia and Serbia who have been stuck coping with many trapped migrants from Syria is a huge issue for the stability of both countries and a massive concern of the EU's. Its very rarely discussed in this country though.}

As part of my meanderings on the BBC websites and others there has been coverage of the continuation of the Balkan problems and the fight against ISIS and other terror groups in Northern Africa.
The UK is heavily focused on Brexit, but there are a lot of 'bad things' going on in the outside world which in a way the UK may get more tangled up in when it leaves the relative 'security' of the EU bubble.
I am using the term security as 'like minded European ways of life and expectations'.

DGRossetti · 15/03/2019 10:16

I see Scott Mann mentioned elsewhere as he single-brain-celledly solves the knife crime crisis ...

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/knife-gps-tracker-tory-mp-scott-mann-national-database-knife-crime-statistics-a8822506.html

Scott Mann, MP for North Cornwall, said: “Every knife sold in the UK should have a GPS tracker fitted in the handle.”

(contd)

If only we could export the wisdom of our representatives.

PigeonofDoom · 15/03/2019 10:23

I’ve put in a complaint to IPSO about the Sun website, utterly appalling. I am so sick of the press ignoring any sense of social responsibility.

DGRossetti · 15/03/2019 10:27

I’ve put in a complaint to IPSO about the Sun website

Pretty certain it's a criminal offence to distribute terrorist material.

www.gov.uk/report-terrorism

PigeonofDoom · 15/03/2019 10:29

They don’t have an explicit category for that but I stated under crime reporting that this material was generated to promote extremism and terrorism

DGRossetti · 15/03/2019 10:30

Takes less than 30 seconds ....

phpolly · 15/03/2019 10:33

thanks for the link DGR - just reported

PigeonofDoom · 15/03/2019 10:34

Yep, dead easy if anyone wants to lodge a complaint. Just go to the IPSO website

PigeonofDoom · 15/03/2019 10:37

Done on the government website too. The Sun have massively crossed the line here.

DGRossetti · 15/03/2019 10:38

Yep, dead easy if anyone wants to lodge a complaint. Just go to the IPSO website

With respect, fuck that. This isn't a badly worded article, or a grammar gripe. It is a criminal offence to distribute material that glorifies terrorist violence. Let's see what the CPS think. This isn't a "complaint". It's a suggestion that the Daily Mail (amongst others) have crossed a line. A line put there to protect our impressionable children from the insidious threat of radicalisation. Something I woudl have thought is fresh in our minds after the Shamima furore.

TheElementsSong · 15/03/2019 10:38

I'm about to complain Pigeon - I see that I can complain about multiple publications in one go. Do I have to link to each one? I don't want to give them the clicks.

DGRossetti · 15/03/2019 10:41

You can hover over a link and copy it without clicking it.

Sorry to Pigeon - red mist overtook briefly Sad Flowers Wine Brew

PigeonofDoom · 15/03/2019 10:43

Er, I have reported on the doc website too DGR, no need to be so confrontational Hmm
I would say it warrants a complaint to both, because if they haven’t committed an offence then they have crossed the line on appropriate reporting. It’s quick and easy on both websites so why not?

PigeonofDoom · 15/03/2019 10:46

Posted before I saw your apology, have one from me too DGR Grin

HesterThrale · 15/03/2019 10:47

Reported The Sun using the .gov site. Took 10 seconds. Can do it anonymously if you want.

Disgraceful reporting.

DGRossetti · 15/03/2019 10:54

On a wider issue, all of these "self policing" bodies (ASA, IPOS, ICO etc) are a waste of letters. They exist merely to prevent action in court (because courts always insist complainants exhaust any arbitration mechanism before they will act). So if there is a separate route direct to the criminal law - it's better to use that.

US law is very like that. Load and loads of arbitration mechanism to fritter money on before the courts will act.

Anyway, Daily Mail and News International shareholders can sleep easy. The chances of any consequences for these postings is zero. As we discovered with Jo Cox, the justice system is pre stacked with what a "terrorist" is.

I must admit to being a little disappointed that our Brexiteer chums haven't moved to make Brexit capital from this tragedy yet. Maybe two plus years have left them tired too ?

phpolly · 15/03/2019 10:55

Apropos of current events, a compelling piece from my inbox this morning. Posted for anyone who's interested.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp/2019/03/14/feature/the-strongmen-strike-back/?utm_term=.c90079977862&wpisrc=nl_opinions&wpmm=1

It's a long read, but worthwhile. The writer is American, but his focus here is historical and international. It is quite relevant to Brexit. Makes you wonder anew how so much of the UK has got caught up in the wrong side of things.

LouiseCollins28 · 15/03/2019 10:58

Just have to post a link in here to coverage of the "Fishing pishing? for Leave" convoy setting off from the north east. Just look at the sign on the back of that lorry! Grin

Grinchly · 15/03/2019 10:59

Does The Sun footage actually show the shooting in progress? I don't want to go to the website for obvious reasons.

DGRossetti · 15/03/2019 10:59

The funniest thing is, Americans have a visceral pathological (read their constitution) hatred of "tyrants" - yet seem to admire people men who are tyrannical.