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Brexit

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 12:57

We need Time!
Its the one thing we don't have.

Todays vote is on extending a50.

To the displeasure of leavers, Bercow has selected amendments:

e) Corbyn Amendment
demands the government should “provide parliamentary time for this house to find a majority for a different approach”.

h) Wollaston Amendment
cross party amendment requesting to extend to allow the ability to legislate for a PV

i) Benn Amendment
cross party backbenchers take over parliamentary time from 20th March to find a majority way forward which gives justification for an extension

j) Bryant Amendment
prevents meaningful vote III

After yesterday's vote, May is left with effectively four options:

1) Pass the WA and go for a short technical extension.
An extension would have numbers in the HoC, but passing the WA is a struggle and it's reliant on the EU granting extension which is probably viable in this circumstances.

2) Be defeated getting the WA through and be forced into asking for a long extension as a result. This would include EP elections.
This option is politically toxic to the tories and its unlikely a long extension would pass the HoC. The EU would still need a justification for a long extension - a PV would be the natural option - but not clear if that could pass the HoC. Ditto passing legislation for EP elections. Whole scenario is unlikely

3) Be forced to revoke
Tory party big red button of self destruct

4) Actively decide to pursue an illegal no deal Brexit
Let's not think of the ramification

Going through this at speed, my initial reactions to this are:

If e) passes it doesn't really make much difference to May's choices here, but Labour might have more say.

If h) passes it might make 2) more likely

If i) passes it might open up alternative options

If j) passes we might have a real issue if its the only amendment that passes - it would leave a straight choice of Revoke or No Deal UNLESS i) passes as well.

But there might be other things that are not hitting me right in the face now.

As it stands, Hard Line Brexiteers were earlier today making noises that they would now support the WA - including whispers that this would include the DUP who would be likely to set off a chain reaction of support.

However which (if any) amendments pass today could well affect whether thats even a possibility.

As a result this vote needs to carry the health warning 'Be Careful what you wish for'. What you would LIKE might be extremely high risk and might jeapordise the main vote and the chances of an extension at all.

So whilst Leavers might be unhappy about the choices, it might well ultimately work best for No Dealers. Or it could be a gift for Remainers. Bercow's selections are not necessarily biased for this reason. He does not know the outcome here. If anything it looks like he's actually trying to put more options on the table for the house, rather than allow May to dictate to the house. Which is exactly what he should be doing. He's given parliament the power.

I suspect we will not fully understand what is going on tonight EVEN MORE than last night. And it will take a short while for everyone to calibrate what the eventual result actually is going to mean.

THIS is the most important vote yet. And it has the potential its going to end up m-e-s-s-y.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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1tisILeClerc · 14/03/2019 20:43

Turkey had a long way to go before the possibility of being able to join the EU. A major stumbling block being human rights issues. I am not sure if the fiscal situation wasn't a factor as well. If they had managed 'compliance' it would still have been many years. As said by PP, there is now a strong Russian influence so the question is hardly on the table now. Even if they did join, the suggestion that millions would flock to the UK is of course crazy.

DivisionBell · 14/03/2019 20:45

Waves at @jasjas1973

In this house, he will be henceforth known a as Scott 'half a moth' Mann MP. I was at work when I saw this. We're in the middle of a huge, stressful software change, so this cheered me up no end.

I've never rated him much as an MP, preferred his Lib Dem predecessor. He really should have stopped at county council level politics.

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!
BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 20:46

LeClerc We would be in a dreadful position to handle any non-Brexit emergency atm, e.g.

More poison from Russia with love
Drones
Hacking power stations, NHS .. ?

PestyMachtubernahme · 14/03/2019 20:50

Colour the bookies now reckon the most likely outcome is we do not leave before 2021. If Brexit had one hundred possibilities 28.57 of those out comes would be we don't leave until at least 2021.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 20:53

Fucking Mendacious Mordaunt AngryAngry

The EU has been saying for several years that there is no prospect of Turkey being approved to even start negotiations for Acession
This is because of Turkey's increasing slide into dictatorship

It's only been the UK pushing it - and Boris AngryAngry hardly drew breath between using Turkey as a bogeyman and pushing for them to be allowed to join

This is one of the issues Leavers complain about: the UK being continually thwarted by other EU members - well they thwart us in blocking Turkey

1tisILeClerc · 14/03/2019 20:55

BCF
That's my point. Something important but not catastrophic that could be construed as being 'failure to leave the EU' related, just to keep the pressure up.

OogieMcBoogie · 14/03/2019 20:56

So does this absolute sh!tshow mean we are far less likely to crash out at the end of this month at least?

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 20:57

and as pp have posted, Erdogan flounced a few years ago and said he never wanted to join the EU club anyway

1tisILeClerc · 14/03/2019 20:59

Why follow human rights when you can be bankrolled by Putin?

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 20:59

Farage reports "huge spike" in membership applications to his party "people are angry"
but hardly a reliable source.

If they knew what to be angry about, they'd be pelting him with eggs

HazardGhost · 14/03/2019 21:07

Farage's people are always angry it's why they beat their wives.

Grin
bellinisurge · 14/03/2019 21:07

Sadly judging by my local MP's FB page, and that of a neighbour MP, and my local community FB page, it doesn't surprise me. "Out means out" " democracy is dead". Shit like that and worse.

SparklySneakers · 14/03/2019 21:08

*Have I got this right:

If WA agreed then she's asking for an extension until the end of June?

If it fails she's asking for a much longer extension to come up with something people will vote for?
*
This seems to be good news but I think I must have got it wrong.

Lweji · 14/03/2019 21:13

Farage reports "huge spike" in membership applications to his party

Two people, then?

1tisILeClerc · 14/03/2019 21:17

{Farage reports "huge spike" in membership applications to his party

Two people, then?}
No, your confusing spike with a couple of pricks.

ContinuityError · 14/03/2019 21:17

Couldn’t you sign up multiple times on Farage’s new party website?

Lweji · 14/03/2019 21:18

Good point.

Lweji · 14/03/2019 21:18

Oooh. Can we sign up with usernames? Wink

SwedishEdith · 14/03/2019 21:18

I've just checked out her FB page (she's useless on social media, doesn't respond to anything) and it's a mix of die-hard Tories, a few CAPITAL letters cranks and a lot of angry remainers. Twitter is also nearly always angry Remain.

PinkieTuscadero · 14/03/2019 21:19

Jessica Elgot
‏*@jessicaelgot*
Summing up the debate, Barclay said: "It is time for this House to act in the national interest, it's time to put forward an extension that is realistic."
And then he voted against it.

British politics really has fallen so far down the rabbit hole.

Lweji · 14/03/2019 21:21

it's time to put forward an extension that is realistic."
And then he voted against it.

He might have meant infinity.

1tisILeClerc · 14/03/2019 21:23

{Oooh. Can we sign up with usernames?}
Shame you can't do the equivalent of putting a cold caller on the telephone onto the speaking clock.

tobee · 14/03/2019 21:23

So Sir Vince Cable to stand down as leader in May

SwedishEdith · 14/03/2019 21:24

Maybe all MPs should only get one 4-5 year term at a time? They can have another go after a being out for a parliamentary term but knowing they're not standing for re-election means they could be honest. I'm sure there are loads of drawbacks with this plan Grin but we've got to start somewhere.

tobee · 14/03/2019 21:27

So my (Tory) Mp was a total rebel last night but voted with the government today. He's also remain and resigned from government because of it. Confused