Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 12:57

We need Time!
Its the one thing we don't have.

Todays vote is on extending a50.

To the displeasure of leavers, Bercow has selected amendments:

e) Corbyn Amendment
demands the government should “provide parliamentary time for this house to find a majority for a different approach”.

h) Wollaston Amendment
cross party amendment requesting to extend to allow the ability to legislate for a PV

i) Benn Amendment
cross party backbenchers take over parliamentary time from 20th March to find a majority way forward which gives justification for an extension

j) Bryant Amendment
prevents meaningful vote III

After yesterday's vote, May is left with effectively four options:

1) Pass the WA and go for a short technical extension.
An extension would have numbers in the HoC, but passing the WA is a struggle and it's reliant on the EU granting extension which is probably viable in this circumstances.

2) Be defeated getting the WA through and be forced into asking for a long extension as a result. This would include EP elections.
This option is politically toxic to the tories and its unlikely a long extension would pass the HoC. The EU would still need a justification for a long extension - a PV would be the natural option - but not clear if that could pass the HoC. Ditto passing legislation for EP elections. Whole scenario is unlikely

3) Be forced to revoke
Tory party big red button of self destruct

4) Actively decide to pursue an illegal no deal Brexit
Let's not think of the ramification

Going through this at speed, my initial reactions to this are:

If e) passes it doesn't really make much difference to May's choices here, but Labour might have more say.

If h) passes it might make 2) more likely

If i) passes it might open up alternative options

If j) passes we might have a real issue if its the only amendment that passes - it would leave a straight choice of Revoke or No Deal UNLESS i) passes as well.

But there might be other things that are not hitting me right in the face now.

As it stands, Hard Line Brexiteers were earlier today making noises that they would now support the WA - including whispers that this would include the DUP who would be likely to set off a chain reaction of support.

However which (if any) amendments pass today could well affect whether thats even a possibility.

As a result this vote needs to carry the health warning 'Be Careful what you wish for'. What you would LIKE might be extremely high risk and might jeapordise the main vote and the chances of an extension at all.

So whilst Leavers might be unhappy about the choices, it might well ultimately work best for No Dealers. Or it could be a gift for Remainers. Bercow's selections are not necessarily biased for this reason. He does not know the outcome here. If anything it looks like he's actually trying to put more options on the table for the house, rather than allow May to dictate to the house. Which is exactly what he should be doing. He's given parliament the power.

I suspect we will not fully understand what is going on tonight EVEN MORE than last night. And it will take a short while for everyone to calibrate what the eventual result actually is going to mean.

THIS is the most important vote yet. And it has the potential its going to end up m-e-s-s-y.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
tobee · 14/03/2019 21:27

He resigned in the past

PinkieTuscadero · 14/03/2019 21:28

Vince Cable. Wow we'll really miss that Commons titan.

Ahem.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 21:31

Jennifer Rankin@JenniferMerode

“When (EU diplomats) look at how the sausages are made some wonder whether they want to continue trading with the sausage factory,” ^

EU source on HoC before latest episode of the omnishambles.

TheElementsSong · 14/03/2019 21:32

Vince Cable. Wow we'll really miss that Commons titan.

GrinGrinGrin

SwedishEdith · 14/03/2019 21:38

Eddie Mair today interviewing Liz Truss.

Eddie asked: “People can change their minds, can’t they?”

The Tory frontbencher replied: “But they were told in the referendum in 2016 that their vote would be implemented.”

Eddie responded: “What about people who have changed their minds between then and now?"

To which Ms Truss said: “I don’t think people have changed their minds.”

“You have,” Eddie hit back.

“I have, that's true,” Ms Truss replied. "In the other way though.”

Grin
BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 21:44

Vince Cable ?
I wondered if he had retired some months ago and I'd missed the news Confused

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 21:46

I think Vince retired months ago. He just forgot to tell anyone until now.

Robert Peston @peston
How high were the stakes tonight for the Tory party, in all those failed attempts tonight to wrest control of Brexit from the PM. Here is the view of a senior Tory MP: “The Tory Party may be finished after tonight. Seeing the huge numbers voting against a delay - shows we are...

“the Brexit Party first and Conservative Party second. If so, big moment. Shame so few ministers or MPs had the ability to understand the battle was underway or the balls to be part of it. I think tonight may show it’s too late. They lost without really putting up a fight”.😳

OP posts:
tobee · 14/03/2019 21:49

I think Mr Barraclough Sir Vince said he would be going. But has only now said when.

I, for one, have been on tenterhooks.

Grin
cherin · 14/03/2019 21:58

Got to share this ;-) m.youtube.com/watch?v=XqwEa6I1lwI

wherearemychickens · 14/03/2019 22:04

That made me lol. Oh god. So many people taking the piss out of us now.

SparklySneakers · 14/03/2019 22:05

How likely is it that the 27 will agree to an extension?

Peregrina · 14/03/2019 22:10

Vince Cable won't go if an election is called. I suppose he would go straight after that anyway.

Personally, I think it's time for pretty much all of that generation to step down from Leadership posts. Continue as backbenchers for a few years, by all means. I think May will Leave Parliament at the next election and I don't think she quite wants to go yet. It might have helped her to get the Brexit she wanted to make a success of, if she had tried to define what Brexit was.

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 22:13

Rafael Behr @ rafaelbehr
A majority of Tory MPs, incl. Cabinet ministers effectively indicated tonight they would take no deal over A50 extension... 1/

If you look up from immediate Commons trenches, zoom out a bit, that is an extraordinary statement about how radicalised the party is. 2/

Not gonna rehearse unwisdom of no deal here but other, moderate Tories know it well enough. How do they feel being in the same party as Brexit kamikazes? Knowing that their next leader might be of that number? 3/

Probably like some Labour MPs did maybe 18 months ago, before the penny dropped that the party they joined had become a new party. And it wasn't going to change back. 4/

A lot of MPs on both sides of Commons now with old allegiances worn to threads.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 22:18

Steven Swinford @steven_swinford
Exclusive

The Geoffrey Cox legal advice that Theresa May hopes will save her Brexit deal

AG has circulated advice with Tory MPs on how backstop could be terminated under terms of the Vienna Convention

But 'Star Chamber' says it is 'badly misconceived'

Geoffrey Cox argues backstop could be revoked if it has a 'socially destabilising effect on NI'

'It is in my view clear and undoubted in those exceptional circumstances that international law provides the [UK] with the right to terminate the Withdrawal Agreement'

BUT there's a sting in the tail.

Star Chamber of Eurosceptic lawyers, which includes Nigel Dodds, has panned advice

In a 5-page analysis they say it is 'erroneous' and 'badly misconceived'

It represents a significant blow to the PM's bid to win over Eurosceptics & DUP for MV3

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/14/exclusive-geoffrey-cox-legal-advice-theresa-may-hopes-will-save/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Exclusive: The Geoffrey Cox legal advice that Theresa May hopes will save her Brexit deal

OP posts:
Peregrina · 14/03/2019 22:18

Well, in the short term, all those MPs have the option of sitting as Independents. They can then wait to see whether a new central party forms and whether the remaining Tory and Labour parties become right and left wing rumps.

QueenOfThorns · 14/03/2019 22:28

...and whether the remaining Tory and Labour parties become right and left wing rumps.

Well that shouldn’t be too difficult - most of them are arses already Grin

SwedishEdith · 14/03/2019 22:57

Italian Foreign Minister Moavero: "if the UK requests an extension we have to grant it"

Agenzia VISTA

@AgenziaVISTA
#Brexit, il ministro agli #AffariEsteri Moavero: “Se Regno Unito chiede proroga dobbiamo votare sì”

SwedishEdith · 14/03/2019 22:59

Jakub Krupa
‏*@JakubKrupa*

Polish Foreign Minister Jacek Czaputowicz said this morning in an annual speech on foreign policy that 'a no deal Brexit is the worst scenario, that's why we will be looking for solutions that would allow to approve the negotiated deal'.

So much for Poland vetoing any extension.

PestyMachtubernahme · 14/03/2019 23:00

Easy to break the backstop - just invade Ireland

OR

Accept Brexit and GFA are mutually incompatible.

Is Cox really a fuck wit who thinks the EU don't understand English?

"Lets sign a deal by sussing how to renege on it", is not the smartest negotiating tactic.

Time for bed, me thinks.

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 23:01

And there goes the reputation of the LDs forever more

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!
OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 23:05

Tomorrows covers

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!
Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!
Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!
OP posts:
SwedishEdith · 14/03/2019 23:05

To be a bit fair (to the LDs), he was actually a Liberal. And then became part of the SDP who, today, have welcomed Rod Liddle and Giles Fraser into their party. So much for Fraser's Lexiter claims.

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 23:06

And more

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!
Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!
OP posts:
SwedishEdith · 14/03/2019 23:13

David Allen Green added,

I interrupted watching panda videos to read this desperate drivel.

Steven Swinford
@Steven_Swinford
Exclusive

The Geoffrey Cox legal advice that Theresa May hopes will save her Brexit deal…

There I was watching pandas happily tumbling over and suddenly I get an alert that the Attorney General has done a further advice.

And I look, and gosh it is weak stuff.

In essence, contending an entirely foreseeable event could constitute an unforeseeable event.

No, I think. Surely me missing watching cheerful panda falling over was interrupted by something more substantial than the legal equivalent of a bamboo shoot?

Alas, not. This is not solid legal advice, it is panda food.

The new AG's advice is as weak as the last letter was strong.

The Vienna Convention is misunderstood in this new advice, and then it is misapplied so as to provide misconceived advice.

Not even enough to convince the "Star Chamber".

It is that bad.

mathanxiety · 14/03/2019 23:29

President Obama commenting before the referendum, trying to influence the result, is rather different from President Trump commenting after the outcome is known, no?
LouiseCollis
If the outcome is known, you'd better phone the government and tell them.

Ditto the outcome of trade talks with the US.