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Brexit

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 12:57

We need Time!
Its the one thing we don't have.

Todays vote is on extending a50.

To the displeasure of leavers, Bercow has selected amendments:

e) Corbyn Amendment
demands the government should “provide parliamentary time for this house to find a majority for a different approach”.

h) Wollaston Amendment
cross party amendment requesting to extend to allow the ability to legislate for a PV

i) Benn Amendment
cross party backbenchers take over parliamentary time from 20th March to find a majority way forward which gives justification for an extension

j) Bryant Amendment
prevents meaningful vote III

After yesterday's vote, May is left with effectively four options:

1) Pass the WA and go for a short technical extension.
An extension would have numbers in the HoC, but passing the WA is a struggle and it's reliant on the EU granting extension which is probably viable in this circumstances.

2) Be defeated getting the WA through and be forced into asking for a long extension as a result. This would include EP elections.
This option is politically toxic to the tories and its unlikely a long extension would pass the HoC. The EU would still need a justification for a long extension - a PV would be the natural option - but not clear if that could pass the HoC. Ditto passing legislation for EP elections. Whole scenario is unlikely

3) Be forced to revoke
Tory party big red button of self destruct

4) Actively decide to pursue an illegal no deal Brexit
Let's not think of the ramification

Going through this at speed, my initial reactions to this are:

If e) passes it doesn't really make much difference to May's choices here, but Labour might have more say.

If h) passes it might make 2) more likely

If i) passes it might open up alternative options

If j) passes we might have a real issue if its the only amendment that passes - it would leave a straight choice of Revoke or No Deal UNLESS i) passes as well.

But there might be other things that are not hitting me right in the face now.

As it stands, Hard Line Brexiteers were earlier today making noises that they would now support the WA - including whispers that this would include the DUP who would be likely to set off a chain reaction of support.

However which (if any) amendments pass today could well affect whether thats even a possibility.

As a result this vote needs to carry the health warning 'Be Careful what you wish for'. What you would LIKE might be extremely high risk and might jeapordise the main vote and the chances of an extension at all.

So whilst Leavers might be unhappy about the choices, it might well ultimately work best for No Dealers. Or it could be a gift for Remainers. Bercow's selections are not necessarily biased for this reason. He does not know the outcome here. If anything it looks like he's actually trying to put more options on the table for the house, rather than allow May to dictate to the house. Which is exactly what he should be doing. He's given parliament the power.

I suspect we will not fully understand what is going on tonight EVEN MORE than last night. And it will take a short while for everyone to calibrate what the eventual result actually is going to mean.

THIS is the most important vote yet. And it has the potential its going to end up m-e-s-s-y.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 18:49

On that last vote - govt motion, BUT which ministers voted AGAINST it ?


Beth Rigby@BethRigby

.... Fox, Barclay, Williamson and half the whips office in the No Lobby against the PM’s motion on the final vote.


leadership klaxon
.....
Kate McCann@KateEMcCann

Understand Andrea Leadsom also voted AGAINST the motion to extend Article 50.

Strong feeling that ministers support the PM's deal and would be OK with a short technical extension

but want to leave on 29 March and will keep pushing to do so and against a long delay.

CordeliaEarhart · 14/03/2019 18:52

This mess is such a national embarrassment. Sick to the back teeth of HoC saying "no" to every question. The only thing they've said yes to is the chance to reconsider something they've already rejected twice! I think banging my head against a brick wall would be less painful than watching the clusterfuck that is Westminster.

icannotremember · 14/03/2019 18:53

So will there be a new cooper amendment next week of the "pass the WA conditional on it going to a PV" variety, do we think?

TatianaLarina · 14/03/2019 18:53

The DUP and ERG are making noises today that suggests the WA has a chance next week. This has been May's best day in a long time.

As I posted earlier ERG have been discussing ways to break the WA using the Vienna Convention today. Stephen Barclay thinks it will be fine. QC Martin Howe says it’s no go, don’t know what the other ERG lawyers say.

Tanith · 14/03/2019 18:54

I do have some sympathy with MPs.

Theresa May has made little or no effort to find out what The People wanted or what Parliament wanted. She has decided what Brexit is to mean and has tried to negotiate it by sending one lazy, ignorant representative after another to get it.

She then presents her ideas to the Cabinet, having been told that the EU won't agree it anyway. She bullies them into agreeing it and Johnson and Davis promptly resign (Every cloud etc.. Smile).

She has tried ever since to bully everyone into accepting her deal - her deal - to the point where she has broken laws and been found in contempt of Parliament. She won't consult, she won't listen, she won't do anything other than follow her version of what Brexit should be. Instead she has wasted everyone's time by trotting back and forth between Brussels and London with her WA firmly in her teeth like a dog disinterring a favourite bone.

No wonder everyone is angry!

bellinisurge · 14/03/2019 18:57

I like your analysis @Tanith

CordeliaEarhart · 14/03/2019 18:57

Will the WA be amendable? If so, I reckon

new cooper amendment next week of the "pass the WA conditional on it going to a PV" variety

might well be attempted.

Whisky2014 · 14/03/2019 18:59

"Brexit will be delayed until 30 June if MPs approve the WA by 20 March."

But why will the mps suddenly vote for it now when the haven't the last twice and nothing has changed?

lonelyplanetmum · 14/03/2019 19:01

But why will the mps suddenly vote for it now when the haven't the last twice and nothing has changed?

Something has changed in that although we are still set for no deal internationally we now no longer want that domestically.

Sostenueto · 14/03/2019 19:01

Well come 19 th they will vote for her deal. The vote was won for not leaving with a deal so they can't not vote for her deal. No time for indicative votes we are stuffed. Basically a resounding win for TM and we are all fucked. There I didn't use an asterick!

TatianaLarina · 14/03/2019 19:02

Robert Peston @Peston

I asked one of 15 Tory MPs who defied May by voting for Benn/Letwin/Cooper amendment, which was probably the surest route to avoid no deal Brexit, why more of his colleagues who hate no deal didn’t join rebels. “They are morons - genuinely not bright” he said. Attached are the 15

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!
Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!
FriendOrFaux · 14/03/2019 19:02

Yes think it'll be third time lucky for TM

Peregrina · 14/03/2019 19:04

I heard one political commentator saying that Jeremy Heywood had asked May when she took office if she wanted to reconsider and explore all the various options. She and her advisers said no, it was going to be their interpretation which was the only one. So I have not one ounce or gram of sympathy for her, she has brought this impasse on herself.

However, I do think now is not the time for a Peoples Vote - we are likely to get another stalemate. The public mood needs to shift. If it shifts to leave without a proper deal then the public are bigger fools than I think. Ruth Smeeth also is being a bit stupid - she won't get a decent Leave deal for her constituents, the best she would be able to get would be customs union and single market.

This won't stop me going on the Demo on Saturday week - it's to show that We Haven't Gone Away.

Whisky2014 · 14/03/2019 19:05

Something has changed in that although we are still set for no deal internationally we now no longer want that domestically

Even though no one was happy with that deal she offered and is still orrdering?

1tisILeClerc · 14/03/2019 19:06

{Will the WA be amendable?}
The WA is the one and only 'deal', there will be no more.

lonelyplanetmum · 14/03/2019 19:06

The demo is to show:
1.we haven't gone away; and 2. that after nearly three years this last minute chaos is beyond unacceptable.

1tisILeClerc · 14/03/2019 19:12

The HoC were believing in unicorns at the previous vote for the WA. There are still some talking about 'fixing things' in June. The UK is leaving on 29 March unless there is a damn good reason presented to the EU. The fact that the HoC voted overwhelmingly to support A50 , by both sides of the house, obviously without having understood what it would really mean. 2 years to get up to speed on what was voted for, and even now some haven't a clue.

Holidayshopping · 14/03/2019 19:12

Soooo

Can we assume that TM is presuming that people will finally vote her WA through, via Meaningless Vote 3, in order to secure this extension that so many have tonight voted for?

MarshaBradyo · 14/03/2019 19:13

If they approve her WA why is an extension needed

TiddleTaddleTat · 14/03/2019 19:14

MV3 won't pass - will it?! She'd have to turn 149 votes!

prettybird · 14/03/2019 19:16

She only has to turn 75 Confused

prettybird · 14/03/2019 19:17

Or rather, she "only" Hmm has to turn 75 to get her majority Shock

TiddleTaddleTat · 14/03/2019 19:18

@prettybird oh yes. Right you are. How many do the ERG, brexiteers and DUP add up to then?
And she'd still have the remainder tories against her surely - plenty of her own party moderates don't back the WA

TiddleTaddleTat · 14/03/2019 19:18

*remainer

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 19:19

LeClerc "The WA being amendable" would only be the bill itself being amendable,
i.e. that an amendment could be tagged on that it must go to a PV for final approval

The WA itself is of course not amendable - the EU very clearly said "no more negotiations"