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Brexit

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 12:57

We need Time!
Its the one thing we don't have.

Todays vote is on extending a50.

To the displeasure of leavers, Bercow has selected amendments:

e) Corbyn Amendment
demands the government should “provide parliamentary time for this house to find a majority for a different approach”.

h) Wollaston Amendment
cross party amendment requesting to extend to allow the ability to legislate for a PV

i) Benn Amendment
cross party backbenchers take over parliamentary time from 20th March to find a majority way forward which gives justification for an extension

j) Bryant Amendment
prevents meaningful vote III

After yesterday's vote, May is left with effectively four options:

1) Pass the WA and go for a short technical extension.
An extension would have numbers in the HoC, but passing the WA is a struggle and it's reliant on the EU granting extension which is probably viable in this circumstances.

2) Be defeated getting the WA through and be forced into asking for a long extension as a result. This would include EP elections.
This option is politically toxic to the tories and its unlikely a long extension would pass the HoC. The EU would still need a justification for a long extension - a PV would be the natural option - but not clear if that could pass the HoC. Ditto passing legislation for EP elections. Whole scenario is unlikely

3) Be forced to revoke
Tory party big red button of self destruct

4) Actively decide to pursue an illegal no deal Brexit
Let's not think of the ramification

Going through this at speed, my initial reactions to this are:

If e) passes it doesn't really make much difference to May's choices here, but Labour might have more say.

If h) passes it might make 2) more likely

If i) passes it might open up alternative options

If j) passes we might have a real issue if its the only amendment that passes - it would leave a straight choice of Revoke or No Deal UNLESS i) passes as well.

But there might be other things that are not hitting me right in the face now.

As it stands, Hard Line Brexiteers were earlier today making noises that they would now support the WA - including whispers that this would include the DUP who would be likely to set off a chain reaction of support.

However which (if any) amendments pass today could well affect whether thats even a possibility.

As a result this vote needs to carry the health warning 'Be Careful what you wish for'. What you would LIKE might be extremely high risk and might jeapordise the main vote and the chances of an extension at all.

So whilst Leavers might be unhappy about the choices, it might well ultimately work best for No Dealers. Or it could be a gift for Remainers. Bercow's selections are not necessarily biased for this reason. He does not know the outcome here. If anything it looks like he's actually trying to put more options on the table for the house, rather than allow May to dictate to the house. Which is exactly what he should be doing. He's given parliament the power.

I suspect we will not fully understand what is going on tonight EVEN MORE than last night. And it will take a short while for everyone to calibrate what the eventual result actually is going to mean.

THIS is the most important vote yet. And it has the potential its going to end up m-e-s-s-y.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
lonelyplanetmum · 14/03/2019 19:24

I've used up my question on the experts thread but can someone else ask if there are any historical precedents for another country messing about their trading relationships in a way that was this protracted, this divisive and this difficult but then turned out to be for the best?

I know the answer will be no but I'd still like to ask.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 19:25

What has changed wrt the WA
is that if it fails, the PM would have to ask for a longer extension, to decide what the hell to do next.

This would cause great political problems for the Tories, especially since it would probably also mean having to participate in the EP elections

So, some more Brexiters might vote for it

However, the hardcore probably won't
neither will the Tory remainers, who see the chance of a PV

So, MV3 - still unlikely to pass on Wednesday

1tisILeClerc · 14/03/2019 19:26

{The WA itself is of course not amendable.}
Is what I was meaning, maybe it didn't come out that way.
Having been watching the games this evening I am losing, actually have already lost some time ago, interest in the silly games they are playing trying to dodge making a decision.

EweSurname · 14/03/2019 19:28

Faisal Islam
@faisalislam
Wow. PM backs extension - but won on Opposition votes - opposed by 60% of her own party MPs and several of her own Cabinet - including her Brexit and Trade Secretaries

Unprecedented situation.

188 Conservative MPs including many ministers voted against seeking A50 extension

Brexit Secretary did not back what is now Government policy to seek an extension - Voted against it alongside 7 other Cabinet ministers.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 19:30

Now Arlene has met with Trump - and Pence
What a godawful trio 🤮🤮🤮

BestIsWest · 14/03/2019 19:31

Where can I find out which way specific MPs voted tonight?

Littlespaces · 14/03/2019 19:32

Is that because those Conservatives want No Deal?

SwedishEdith · 14/03/2019 19:32

What's really, really annoying me is the repeated "The country just want us to get on with it" stuff. I simply believe the country just wants Brexit to go away. Lots of people really don't care - in much the same way they didn't care before. So, saying they want no deal/get on with it is just a way of saying "make it stop". So revoke would achieve the same response.

It's hardly ever discussed now at work (and if you knew where I work that is...strange). No-one talks about the details - they're bored of it.

MadAboutWands · 14/03/2019 19:34

How can you vote against the WA, against No Deal but also against the extension??? Confused

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 19:39

Best
commonsvotes.digiminster.com

Fill in the date you want
Then go to the vote you want and click on either Ayes or Nos to get to the individual MP's votes

jasjas1973 · 14/03/2019 19:42

I ve oft wondered how we got into this situation and then i read about Brexitier Scott Mann MP and his "ideas" on knife crime and all became clear....... those FB have a look on there, hilarious.

www.thepoke.co.uk/2019/03/14/tory-mp-said-knives-fitted-gps-cut-crime-glorious-takedowns-got-straight-to-the-point/?fbclid=IwAR2NqvTuSCHG9dg689OLYwIb6SDvD50r6ecIptYADze6pGx1Ho04HvW6f6Q

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 19:43

SkyNews gives this exmaple of batshittery - which would normally be a scandalous resigning matter,
but hardly gets noticed atm

Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay voted against the government's motion on delaying Brexit tonight,
despite having commended it to MPs less than an hour-and-a-half earlier.

At the end of the debate, preceding tonight's votes, Barclay told MPs:

"It is time for this House to act in the national interest. It is time to put forward an extension that is realistic.

I commend the government motion to the House."

He then voted against it. 🤦🏻‍♀️ 🤯

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 19:43

Pippa Crerar @pippacrerar
NINE - Chief Whip Julian Smith abstained.

OP posts:
QueenOfThorns · 14/03/2019 19:45

So, if Meaningless Vote 3 included an amendment to say that the WA has to be ratified by a PV, does that have any chance of passing? Or would that amendment not stand a chance in the first place?

phpolly · 14/03/2019 19:46

indistinct me too. Much more even for my children than for myself

BestIsWest · 14/03/2019 19:49

Thank you BigChoc seems my Labour MP was one of the non abstainers in the PV Vote. Interesting.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/03/2019 19:49

Queen It would be the most likely way to break the deadlock, imo
because the WA on its own would almost certainly get voted down again, because not enough MPs have switched to it.

Probably depends on whether Corbyn is prepared to back the amendment, or whether he'll continue to block any chance of a PV

Yaralie · 14/03/2019 19:50

The only positive way forward is to revoke Article 50 so the UK remains in the EU. I say this not just so that my life will no longer be blighted by this brexit nonsense, but for the sake of my children and grandchildren.

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 19:50

Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
...and: the Chief Whip Julian Smith abstained. His deputy Chris Pincher also voted against the PM, with most of the senior whips. Hard to think of a more insulting blow to May's authority.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 19:54

Steven Crabb @ scrabbpembs
Coming from college green interview bumped into a colleague who declared how mad everything is. Told me how important delaying article 50 is now. I asked him why he voted against it then. ‘I have my association AGM coming up’ he replied.

OP posts:
OhYouBadBadKitten · 14/03/2019 19:58
Angry
Shambu · 14/03/2019 19:59

lonelyplanetmum

The Americans did just after WW1. Woodrow Wilson had previously cut tariffs, but when the Republicans came to power after the war they increased them. Then came the Depression and international trade shrank. They raised tariffs again in 1930. Europe and Canada retaliated with their own tariffs and bilateral trade deals. American imports and exports tanked.

1tisILeClerc · 14/03/2019 20:00

So, what will the 'softener' be this weekend?
A plague of frogs, deep snow and power cuts, something dodgy on door handles, free shipment of chlorine chicken to try or all the HoC struck down by D&V?

ContinuityError · 14/03/2019 20:01

Yeah, I struggle a bit with this. Even if the RAF were thick enough to mine their own sodding airfields, any explosives would have been decommissioned after the war - we did keep records.

I can absolutely guarantee that UK airfields were mined and that they weren’t all removed at the end of the war.

SwedishEdith · 14/03/2019 20:02

C4News voxpops now with everyone fed up - Brexit fatigue. One claimed he hadn't voted but would vote stay now. I suspect a few will now claim they didn't vote.

Has anyone read the Penny Mordaunt thread? This is her "answer" for her Turkey lie. Well done Helmet!

@Helmetbymidnight
During the Brexit campaign, you repeatedly said that the UK couldn't stop Turkey from joining the EU. This was a huge lie. A lie I heard many people repeat in the run-up to the referendum. So my questions are: Why did you say that? Are you ashamed of the lies you told to get people to vote Brexit? Do you think deliberately lying in politics is acceptable or democratic?

Answer:

I said that because I believed there was a risk of Turkey joining the EU and Britain not being able to veto this due to the public statements made by the Government, including the Prime Minister, at the time.

I’ll explain my thinking. Our former Prime Minister David Cameron set out the case for Turkey’s membership of the EU in a video that emerged in 2016, saying “I am here to make the case for Turkey’s membership of the European Union and to fight for it… I will remain your strongest possible advocate for EU membership and for greater influence at the top table of European diplomacy. This is something I feel very strongly and very passionately about. Together I want us to pave the road from Ankara to Brussels…”

He went on to draw a parallel between Britain and Turkey by mentioning how Britain was initially vetoed from joining the Common Market in 1973 by France.

He added: “We know what it’s like to be shut out of the club. But we also know that these things can change”

I do not believe having given that assurance to a key NATO partner Britain could have ever vetoed their membership.

During the referendum campaign some said we didn’t need to worry about our veto, as other countries would use theirs. I was not reassured. In addition, during the campaign, as Turkey’s human rights abuses escalated, rather than warn them such authoritarianism would exclude them from the club, the EU chose to speed up the process of Turkey’s accession.

Meanwhile, Penny, look here

'Boris Johnson says Britain will now help Turkey join EU despite using prospect to help win referendum'

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/27/boris-johnson-says-britain-will-now-help-turkey-join-eu-despite/